01-20-2006, 01:26 AM | #1 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Germany
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[Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
From the "medieval magic outcome" thread:
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-The battle mages of Megalos were probably not used to thinking in that way, which was part of their problem. Sure, they could have thought of it, but it was just a very alien idea to them. Such mistakes happen throughout Earth's history. -Remember that those mages on the battlefield will take 10X the time for doing so- so for the same cadence and chance of succes, you need not 5 times as many mages, but 50 times as many. -Any usual Megalan battle mage with skill 12 in most of his spells will, without rituals, be down to skill level 7- in other words, he'll be useless for direct combat magic. But direct combat magic is the Megalan battle mages' most important field- their most talented mages choose that career path. -I also imagine that mages who are used to live under the effect of Recover Energy and then suddenly have to work without it easily overestimated themselves and their energy reserves. They probably used doctrines that depended on recovering one FP every 5 minutes, while they actually only recovered one every 10 minutes. This can really blow a battle plan. Especially since the commanders of the Megalan legions were probably no mages, but nobles, who had no intuitive grasp for the limitations Low Mana puts on their mages. Sure, the mages told him that "the local mana is weak", but, hey- we are Megalos. We have the best battle mages in the world. -The Megalan legions may be tough infantry, but armored knights on horseback are, nodoubtedly, more mobile. Since Megalan doctrine quite probably depends on magical "artillery" handling the most heavily armed opponents, the legionnaires are probably also not that used to conventional, no mana anti-heavy cavalry tactics. All in all, a military disaster of Megalos in Caithness based on Caithness' low mana level seems quite credible to me. |
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01-20-2006, 01:53 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: near Houston
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Re: [Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
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01-20-2006, 02:19 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: [Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
First - militaries that are "professional" are going to take the time and the effort to determine what works versus what doesn't work on the field. After the first "disaster" or major defeat, you know the Megalosian Generals are going to be working on ways to counter the initial problems.
As for magic items being created for use with the military - you know that those units intended to fight in low mana regions will be enchanted to a higher Power than normal. All it takes is to enchant the item with either 3 times the energy required, or it takes 3 times longer. Power 20 enchantments for armies intended in low mana regions will become that much more common than if they were not. Keep in mind however, that the limiting factor here is the number of Mage Manhours available for item creation. Having said that however - the idea that missile formations can destroy a unit is perhaps a misunderstood conception. Missile fire upon a unit does not cause debilitating casualties if what I'm reading is correct. They tend to account for 3% of the casualties outright during the intial clash of armies - then it breaks down to outright melee combat. Where missile fire excels however, is the breakdown of unit cohesion and morale. THIS can be an issue, especially if you factor in things like magically linked Area effect spells. The problem with this is that LINK as a spell is a magery 3 spell. If Mageborn who have magery 3 are relatively rare - you can't spend them on healing the rich and keeping the rich alive indefinitely with Youth spells and halt aging etc - AND expect them to be involved in very specialized warfare positions. My experience with GURPSNET magewars taught me a few things about magical warfare implemented with GURPS MASS COMBAT. The first is that using the rules as they are written in GURPS MAGIC, affecting combat is not as easy as the MASS COMBAT rules seem to imply. Take the following situation as an example: At the start of the battle, the opposing enemy lines are approximately 200 yards apart. At a steady march, both moving at normal march speeds - they close the distance by 100 yards and engage. This takes all of about 120 seconds or so as units adjust their formation while marching - trying to present the perfect combat frontage. 120 seconds? That is about 2 minutes time tops. This isn't even a CHARGE, but simple marching. Name ONE mage who can cast a CONTROL PERSON spell at a range of 200 yards without some form of augumentation. Now we go to the task of fighting cavalry. Disciplined Roman troops met cavalry charges by throwing pilium to break the charge. From what I've read, a good pilium toss can reach about 65 yards with more effective throwing taking place within a closer range. Front rank looses Pilium advances with drawn sword (or fights with spear). Second rank throws, and takes up position behind front rank. Third rank throws, and advances behind second rank. By being disciplined, they do not (hopefully!) break before the charge and give the horses ground they can run through. If the infantry don't break, the cavalry has no choice but to divert to either side of the infantry that has planted itself in their path. Give the "romans" time to prepare their position, and they defend it rather than advancing - and you have every cavalryman's nightmare - well protected infantry that will NOT break before the charge. More on this later... |
01-20-2006, 02:51 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: [Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
The reasons given in the original GURPS Fantasy treatment for Megalos not conquering Caithness do have problems. To be honest, it does take some explanation.
And it so happens that we were fully aware of this when we wrote Banestorm. So we provided what I fondly think are rather better, or at least subtler and more complex, reasons. The big point is that Megalos just isn't as tough, smart, or professionally efficient as it likes to think it is. It's an oversized empire with fundamental inherent problems (though there's more to it than that). Though it's still bloody powerful and dangerous. (And if you don't think that a rather ramshackle, oversized empire with fundamental inherent problems can't last centuries and threaten its neighbours something rotten - go away and look up the word "Ottoman".)
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01-20-2006, 03:36 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: [Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
Hey Phil,
During the course of your playtesting, did anyone set out to quantify what exactly goes into a Megalosian Legion? Were these legions modelled on Early Rome, Marius' legions, or the Imperial Romans? I'd be interested in seeing some of your thoughts on this as well as your thoughts on what goes into a Mage Corps that makes a difference between the Legion succeeding and a Legion failing while in Caithness. One thing to note: Megalos at one time, had the skills for dealing with logistics in a mana low region. If you take into account the fact that the original settlers of Caithness were actually Megalosian citizens, of whom were able to not only settle in Caithness, but prosecute a war against the orcs and drive them to the desert and beyond - one would have to conclude that the people of Megalos do know their stuff. At worst, the Orcs were no better than the Barbarians of Gaul (unless you want to presume they were primatives compared with those of Megalos) against Julius Caesar. So what all happened between when Caithness was first settled and when the Legions marched on Caithness? Was it the close ties of Craine with Caithness? Was treason part of the problem? Did they not know they were dealing with a low mana region and the legion was led by someone with terminal stupidity? Somehow, I have a hard time buying that last bit ;) |
01-20-2006, 05:07 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: [Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
The settlement of Caithness by humans tells us that Megalan colonists can, over a period of time, push an orc population off its land. This need not have involved much 'real' military might, and those that did it could well have stayed in Caithness.
On top of that, the social structure of Megalos doesn't seem conducive to innovation, especially the sort that makes you a war hero (war heroes are dangerous - their troops might follow them on some foolish domestic adventure). Also, just because they call their units 'legions', and pretend to be the local inheritor of Roman glory does not make the armies of Megalos professional legionaires. It's quite possible they're more like a late-Empire cavalry unit, and are only marginally more diciplined than a band of Caithness knights. Add in a belief that anything learnt fighting 'backwards rabble' isn't worth remembering, an attitude that 'what worked for Duke Avery a century is good enough for me', and belief in the invinicbility of a Legion, and you have a situation where it'll take a miracle for a Megalan legion to win off its home ground. Certainly their showing against Al-Wazif has been less than stellar in recent wars.
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01-20-2006, 05:10 AM | #7 |
Pike's Pique
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio U.S.A.
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Re: [Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
That would be a supplement that I would buy.
The Caithness / Megalos War. With plenty of maps, 4th edition NPCs statted out, and optional timelines for different versions of the "WAR". Make it under $24.00 - and you've got a deal. Maybe some cardboard characters thrown in representing both sides?? A sheet showing the colors and Coat of arms for both sides?? Their National flags and colors would be nice too. - E.W. Charlton
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01-20-2006, 05:49 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: [Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
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But mostly - What Rupert Said. With variations. They've had their ups and downs over the centuries, and it's a big empire anyway. And see Banestorm p.47. It says what I wanted to say on this the first time round, and it stands.
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01-20-2006, 11:10 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Parnamirim, Brazil
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Re: [Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
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Although I think it would be a E23 product, mainly because the demand for this book would be VERY low - or not. Are that many GURPS players interested in Yrth intricacies of the past (I know I am, but what about the rest? I´m the only guy in my town that plays regularly in Yrth)?
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01-20-2006, 02:13 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama
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Re: [Banestorm] The war of Megalos against Caithness
Something to facto in the war of Megalos vs Caithnees is that Caitneesers won their war.
megalos soldiers and officers were with big morale problems... consider all the small spells that an army need for day to day in the field across the wet caithnees hills. Spells that surelly are not cast by high skilled mages. Spells for simple injuries, fatige, food and water supplies, etc. And losing the first few battles or even wining, but with lots of casualties (harder to cast healing magics) and wounded companions, made them realise of a thing long forgoten... a megalan defeat. On the other side the caithneesers were figting for theyr land and king! against a hated enemy. The knights of the stone are morale first and combat prowess second. The levies of Caithnees may not be profesionals, but many were good warriors. And the leaders were good stragegists and used all theyr advantages agains the dragon empire. Even with all this Caithnees got heavy losses in the war (it was not an easy victory). But the megalans saw it as making the imposible as stated in GURPS Banestorm. I thing that the outcome of that war is higly probable, based on the particular circunstances. |
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