(Social Engineering) Checking my privilege

[Mailanka]

One of the hallmarks of aristocracy and status in many traditional societies are special legal exemptions, unique courts and unique legal requirements. For example, aristocracy might be judged by a court of "his peers," ie fellow aristocrats, so if he abused a commoner, he might get a lighter sentence than if he were judged by fellow commoners. Even if that were not the case, the punishment for murdering a lower class person might be less for him than it might be for a commoner, or he might be legally entitled to a stipend, and by the same token, he might have additional constraints that others do not (ie, to respond to a call to arms from his King).

If this sort of thing is structural in your society, I have two questions. First, how does this translate into an advantage? Is it just Status? Is it a limited form of Legal Immunity and a set of other advantages (ie a stipend is just Independent Income, and the fact that it's associated with your status as opposed to investments is just a bit of color), and what specialization of Law would cover the ins and outs of aristocracy, as opposed to everyone else. In other words, if I, as a noble, wanted to know what I could get away with and what I couldn't, what would I roll?

[Ulzgoroth]

Worminghall treats the similar legal status afforded to clergy (and, in context, university teachers and students) as Legal Immunity. 5 points for the actual clerics (who have a bunch of associated duties), 10 for the academics who get to game the status further.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

If this sort of thing is structural in your society, I have two questions. First, how does this translate into an advantage? Is it just Status? Is it a limited form of Legal Immunity and a set of other advantages (ie a stipend is just Independent Income, and the fact that it's associated with your status as opposed to investments is just a bit of color),

Ordinary authorities not having jurisdiction over you is Legal Immunity. Leniency from juries is a function of Status, in that 'regular' criminals have low Status and you have high Status, so the Reaction rolls tend to be far more in your favour.

Originally Posted by Mailanka

and what specialization of Law would cover the ins and outs of aristocracy, as opposed to everyone else. In other words, if I, as a noble, wanted to know what I could get away with and what I couldn't, what would I roll?

In any society where there is actual privilege, i.e. special laws for special people, knowledge of the relevant Law speciality for whatever is going on (Criminal, Civil, Inheritance, etc.) will include knowledge of special cases.

Optional specialities of Inheritence, Estate and Civil Law are a good way to reflect a noble's knowledge of the law, with them rolling at +2 for the law as it applies to nobles relative to the wider speciality of Law.

[Polydamas]

Cultural Familiarity is also important. I would allow rolls against Intelligence with a generous TDM for cultural common knowledge, and the -3 for lacking Cultural Familiarity would definitely apply. (Some of the modifiers under Area Knowledge might also be relevant, to represent someone from a well-run but very provincial small town visiting the local Corrupt City of Sin).

Social Regard and Social Stigma are also important for representing inequality, as are Claim to Hospitality and various perks and quirks like "right to wear a sword" or "no driver's license." Many societies are divided vertically into different groups with different rights and responsibilities, as well as horizontally by Status. Most of us have some idea how that worked in the renaissance, where a wealthy merchant, a penniless gentleman, and a minor church official can all do different things and what GURPS calls status is not necessarily the trump card.

[whswhs]

If it's a special position enforced by the state and governed by formal rules that can be appealed to in some sort of trial, I'd say it's a branch of Law. Probably the best name would be Law (Status), though maybe Law (Peerage) would fit, or in extreme cases Law (Caste). If there's no official enforcement, but it's purely by custom, I'd put it under Savoir-Faire (High Society). Either way, the basic points would be straight IQ; for example, you wouldn't need a Law roll in ancient Rome to know that people wearing clothing with purple stripes mustn't be attacked.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by whswhs

straight IQ; for example, you wouldn't need a Law roll in ancient Rome to know that people wearing clothing with purple stripes mustn't be attacked.

Sounds to me like a Cultural Familiarity penalty. Would world-hoppers or time travelers know this fact, deduced solely by their high IQ?

But CF a penalty to a skill, which IQ rolls aren't -- in this case, probably Savoir-Faire (Rome), though it might also be Heraldry. Or we stretch the point a tiny bit and apply CF to attribute rolls as well as skill rolls. I suspect characters probably ought to get a Savoir-Faire and Area Knowledge skill for free, along with their "culture".

(The list of skills with significant cultural components from B23, so that CF is relevant: "Carousing, Connoisseur, Criminology, Dancing, Detect Lies, Diplomacy, Fast-Talk, Games, Gesture, Heraldry, Intimidation, Leadership, Merchant, Poetry, Politics, Psychology, Public Speaking, Savoir-Faire, Sex Appeal, Sociology, Streetwise, and Teaching")

[Polydamas]

How would we represent a high-status or Regard person who has become blind to his social inferiors (causing reaction penalties and letting them hear and see things that they should not)? That is a staple of fiction, from H. Beam Piper's "The Mercenaries" (1950) to father Brown's chaufeur, and also of real life.

Originally Posted by whswhs

If it's a special position enforced by the state and governed by formal rules that can be appealed to in some sort of trial, I'd say it's a branch of Law. Probably the best name would be Law (Status), though maybe Law (Peerage) would fit, or in extreme cases Law (Caste). If there's no official enforcement, but it's purely by custom, I'd put it under Savoir-Faire (High Society). Either way, the basic points would be straight IQ; for example, you wouldn't need a Law roll in ancient Rome to know that people wearing clothing with purple stripes mustn't be attacked.

I would be tempted to include Streetwise, because long-term criminals learn who they can victimize or where they can ply their trade. That is different from their smattering of Law to avoid the criminal justice system, or the social skills they use to try to avoid less formal punishment. It is not the same as Area Knowledge, because serial criminals often move from city to city and successfully use the same formula to find socially permissible victims.

In an earlier thread, we talked about an advantage where the GM guaranteed to step in and warn the player about likely negative consequences of their actions ... sort of like Common Sense but limited to social consequences (a drone strike is a social consequence ...)

[Polydamas]

I would be suspicious of defining new specialties of Law because where this is explicitly recognized in statute, it tends to be woven into the fabric of the law like inequality in general is woven into the fabric of society. So the Codex Hammurabi or Late Roman law say in as many words that penalties depend on the class of the accused and class of the victim; in the 17th century benefit of Clergy is an accepted part of English law (although a few hundred years earlier both Law (Canon) and Law (English Civil) would apply). There is not one Roman law, then a separate module considering social class, because almost any aspect of a charge, trial, and punishment are affected by it.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

How would we represent a high-status or Regard person who has become blind to his social inferiors (causing reaction penalties and letting them hear and see things that they should not)? That is a staple of fiction, from H. Beam Piper's "The Mercenaries" (1950) to father Brown's chaufeur, and also of real life.

To a certain extent this is actually fairly adaptive behaviour - servants are effectively invisible to counteract the fact that they are nearly omnipresent. Without that convention, there is a complete lack of privacy - much in the same way that people ignore one another in lifts and underground carriages...

[EarthStone]

Originally Posted by whswhs
straight IQ; for example, you wouldn't need a Law roll in ancient Rome to know that people wearing clothing with purple stripes mustn't be attacked.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Sounds to me like a Cultural Familiarity penalty. Would world-hoppers or time travelers know this fact, deduced solely by their high IQ? But CF a penalty to a skill, which IQ rolls aren't -- in this case, probably Savoir-Faire (Rome), though it might also be Heraldry. Or we stretch the point a tiny bit and apply CF to attribute rolls as well as skill rolls. I suspect characters probably ought to get a Savoir-Faire and Area Knowledge skill for free, along with their "culture".

I would disagree and say that it is very much a roll against Law... and for most folks it will mean using a Default Law of IQ-6... however you are discussing aspects of the Law that are either Very Easy (+6 or +7) or even Trivial (+8 or +9) giving a Default roll of at least IQ and possibly up to IQ+3. Law does use Cultural Familiarity modifiers so your theoretical time traveler, or even someone visiting from outside of Rome, quite likely might not know it.