Magic in an After the End setting

[Ed the Coastie]

I have an After the End game that I am starting to run, and one of the ideas for the game is that "magic has returned". I want something powerful enough to be useful, but no so over-the-top as to invalidate other, non-magical character types. I've looked over the range of precedents from SM Stirling's "Emberverse" through Terry Brooks' "Genesis of Shannara" series and Jim Butchers "Dresden Files" (which isn't post-apocalypse, but seems to maybe fit) to "Thundarr the Barbarian"and games like Shadowrun.

So far, I keep coming back to some form of ritual magic, either a form of Voodoo or an energy-accumulating Book magic, possibly using Hidden Lore (Magical Writings) as a corresponding skill and cribbing magical texts (or, more precisely, books containing magical lore for those who have the skill) from Castle Falkenstein, Call of Cthulhu, and Deadlands.

Any ideas? I'm kind of stymied at the moment...

[Kelly Pedersen]

I'd say Path/Book definitely fits with what you're describing. If you're looking for other magic systems to look at, I'd say that probably any system that either a) costs significant personal resources to use any given effect, or b) takes a fair bit of preparation time to use magic might fit the bill.

The first criteria means that spellcasters have significant personal choices to make when spellcasting: "Do I cast this effect, and maybe not be able to cast anything else in this interaction, or even seriously limit my other abilities?". Systems that fit this include the standard GURPS Magic system, since spells cost personal FP to cast, quite a bit for potent effects.

The second criteria means that magic requires a safe place to cast, which can be hard to come by in the wastelands of After The End, so magic will be limited by both time and the availability of safety. Good candidates include, as you've already observed, Path/Book Magic, but also flexible systems if their effects take a long time to cast - Symbol Drawing-based systems could work for that. Also, alchemy or other magical item-preparation-based systems would probably qualify.

Finally, consider the Sorcery system - it's not really expensive to cast (usually 1 or 2 FP per spell), and it's not time-limited (usually only takes a second to switch spells), but because it's based on modified advantages, it's considerably better balanced with other characters, in my opinion - there's far fewer problems with a character able to sink some points into one particular magical option and get a benefit out-of-proportion to other point investments.

[sir_pudding]

Some sources you may have missed: Ralph Bashki's Wizards is for me the iconic work in this genre. Also Earthdawn may be set a post-apocalyptic future of Shadowrun.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Also Earthdawn may be set a post-apocalyptic future of Shadowrun.

I'm pretty sure that almost all the Earthdawn and Shadowrun sources suggest that Earthdawn, while definitely post-apocalyptic, is set in the past of Shadowrun, not its future.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I'm pretty sure that almost all the Earthdawn and Shadowrun sources suggest that Earthdawn, while definitely post-apocalyptic, is set in the past of Shadowrun, not its future.

I thought Shadowrun's past was our history.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Also Earthdawn may be set a post-apocalyptic future of Shadowrun.

Allegedly a post-apocalyptic _past_ of Shadowrun (and an Earth very much like ours).

I say "alledgedly" because it's a claim (official though it may be) that's somewhat controversial. Earthdawn players tend to buy it without question but Shadowrun players tend to be bewildered by the lack of resemblance between the two settings.

Shadowrun might be closer to post-apocalyptic than Earthdawn. SR is not quite PA but Earthdawn is so far after an apocalypse that it has few of the right characteristics. It's just low tech fantasy.

[Flyndaran]

Shadowrun is our future, but Earthdawn is our distant past.
All the archaeological evidence will revert back to its true form when magic comes back.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I say "alledgedly" because it's a claim (official though it may be) that's somewhat controversial. Earthdawn players tend to buy it without question but Shadowrun players tend to be bewildered by the lack of resemblance between the two settings.

Yeah, I guess that is why I thought it was the future.

Shadowrun might be closer to post-apocalyptic than Earthdawn. SR is not quite PA but Earthdawn is so far after an apocalypse that it has few of the right characteristics. It's just low tech fantasy.

Other than the vaults.

At any rate, clearly I was mistaken.

Wizards on the other hand is absolutely post-apocalypse-and-magic-returns.

Edit: And, of course, so is Adventure Time.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I thought Shadowrun's past was our history.

Only our recorded history, basically - the backstory of Shadowrun is that there was once a "Fourth Age" of magic and fantasy races and such (the time period of Shadowrun is the Sixth Age), but records of all that was lost when the magic went away. However, notable figures in Shadowrun (the Great Dragons, for example, and several elves who have been revealed as immortal, not just long-lived like other elves) often reference the previous time period, and their references are usually to stuff that happened in Earthdawn.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Other than the vaults.

Yeah, Earthdawn is pretty definitely post-apocalyptic. I mean, it's a bit more post- than some other PA settings, with more development of society and such. And there's really no element of "lost technology". But you've got vaults ("kaers" in the setting terminology) as a major adventure location, both for "open and find still-trapped people, lead them into the new world" and "explore one that fell to a catastrophe, loot and deal with lingering dangers" plotlines. You've got "regions of the world that are still too dangerous to enter from what caused the disaster" bits. You've got "cultures that we have records of from before the disaster but are now greatly changed by their experiences" bits. Earthdawn has always been post-apocalyptic - that's pretty much its central hook: "justify D&D tropes with a post-apocalyptic fantasy setting".