[On Target] MoS-based Accuracy Bonus on Aim Rolls

[Wavefunction]

Hey guys,

I've been looking over the On Target rules from Pyramid #3/77 Combat, and they're really cool, they turn Aim from 'Well I'm not good enough to take that shot so I'll sit around doing nothing for a turn' into something that feels far more dynamic. I like the idea of Variable Accuracy, but I'd prefer for it to vary depending on Margin of Success on the aim roll. I understand that it's likely more realistic for it to be completely random, it's just not the feel I want. So how should I go about making it MoS-dependent?

Two follow-up questions:

Would it be fair to let a normal person make two aim rolls at -6, kinda like a rapid strike aim manoeuvre to aim at two people simultaneously, with the same prerequisites as Enhanced Tracking, i.e. needing to be able to train sights on them independently.

How reasonable would it be to base aim rolls on Perception? I'm sure DX better models reality, holding the weapon steady, carefully training it on your opponent, etc. but I'd like to make Per a bit more beneficial for rangers.

[Emerald Cat]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

So how should I go about making it MoS-dependent?

I would have them make a Per-based Guns roll and give them a bonus of MoS/2 (rounded down) to their next attack roll.

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Would it be fair to let a normal person make two aim rolls at -6, kinda like a rapid strike aim manoeuvre to aim at two people simultaneously, with the same prerequisites as Enhanced Tracking, i.e. needing to be able to train sights on them independently.

I find aiming at two separate people with the same weapon to be a little cinematic for my tastes.

[mushroom911]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Hey guys,


Two follow-up questions:

Would it be fair to let a normal person make two aim rolls at -6

That's practically impossible.

The whole quick shot technique thing and/or dual weapon attack has their own penalty, and you cannot realistically aim two seperate attacks. You can aim at the first target and fire with your off hand at another, with a penalty to your attack roll.

Of course you could create some sort of disadvantage for lazy eye....
No but seriously it doesn't work.

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by mushroom911

That's practically impossible.

The whole quick shot technique thing and/or dual weapon attack has their own penalty, and you cannot realistically aim two seperate attacks. You can aim at the first target and fire with your off hand at another, with a penalty to your attack roll.

Of course you could create some sort of disadvantage for lazy eye....
No but seriously it doesn't work.

Fair enough, I figured it was pretty unlikely.

[mushroom911]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Fair enough, I figured it was pretty unlikely.

A dual wielding gunslinger is quite easy to pull off though. Just remember to buy off the penalty for dual-weapon attack, quick shot and get ambidex/ off hand weapon training (off hand wep is a perk for 1 pt in tac shooting).

Combine this with some fancy targeted attacks (vitals, hands maybe)

And you can easily buy off all major penalties for little over 20 pts.

It does not let you aim though.... If you really want to you can get the gunslinger advantage (so your aim bonus applies without aiming )for 25pts.... or just invest the points in upping your gun skill.

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by mushroom911

A dual wielding gunslinger is quite easy to pull off though. Just remember to buy off the penalty for dual-weapon attack, quick shot and get ambidex/ off hand weapon training (off hand wep is a perk for 1 pt in tac shooting).

Combine this with some fancy targeted attacks (vitals, hands maybe)

And you can easily buy off all major penalties for little over 20 pts.

It does not let you aim though.... If you really want to you can get the gunslinger advantage (so your aim bonus applies without aiming )for 25pts.... or just invest the points in upping your gun skill.

Heh, yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the GURPS rules for ranged combat, it's more reality's rules that I'm unsure of. :)

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Hey guys,

I've been looking over the On Target rules from Pyramid #3/77 Combat, and they're really cool, they turn Aim from 'Well I'm not good enough to take that shot so I'll sit around doing nothing for a turn' into something that feels far more dynamic.

Thanks! I think it's some of my best work.

I like the idea of Variable Accuracy, but I'd prefer for it to vary depending on Margin of Success on the aim roll. I understand that it's likely more realistic for it to be completely random, it's just not the feel I want. So how should I go about making it MoS-dependent?

Minimum Acc bonus is equal to 1 for every 2 MoS?

+1 to the roll for every 2 MoS, but you still can't get better than Acc+2?

For every -2 to hit, you get +1 to Acc, before you roll (this "risk first, reward later" is like Deceptive Attack.

Reason for all the 2s on the MoS is because range and size penalties are halved.

Two follow-up questions:

Would it be fair to let a normal person make two aim rolls at -6, kinda like a rapid strike aim manoeuvre to aim at two people simultaneously, with the same prerequisites as Enhanced Tracking, i.e. needing to be able to train sights on them independently.

How reasonable would it be to base aim rolls on Perception? I'm sure DX better models reality, holding the weapon steady, carefully training it on your opponent, etc. but I'd like to make Per a bit more beneficial for rangers.

Per rolls for offsetting range penalties isn't too bad, but the actions to shoot a gun and aim a gun are basically identical. Easy answer: try it. See if it breaks anything.

For the "aim at two folks" thing, that's pretty unlikely without supernatural/superhuman advantages. For an action movie, though . . . bring it on. -6 to each Aim roll is pretty harsh, so booyah.

Another way to do it is to look at modeling it as sequential. take enough Rapid Strike and/or Extra Attack to Aim/Shoot/Aim/Shoot. That IS realistic.

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Thanks! I think it's some of my best work.

It's definitely up there. I've come up with a rule of thumb that the amount of rolling and/or bookkeeping should be directly proportional to how dramatic the task is. I found Last Gasp didn't add enough drama to warrant the extra rolls and bookkeeping for my players. However that rule of thumb goes both ways, and I think Aim had too few rolls.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Minimum Acc bonus is equal to 1 for every 2 MoS?

+1 to the roll for every 2 MoS, but you still can't get better than Acc+2?

For every -2 to hit, you get +1 to Acc, before you roll (this "risk first, reward later" is like Deceptive Attack.

Reason for all the 2s on the MoS is because range and size penalties are halved.

To clarify, I'd like the Accuracy bonus to be variable, but I'd like to use MoS instead of rolling for Variable Accuracy. That last option is kinda interesting through, it gives me some ideas.

I'd quite like to use roughly the same system for Evaluate, it basically becomes the melee equivalent of Aim. Though of course melee weapons don't have Accuracy, so it'd just be a margin-based bonus +1 per additional second up to 3 seconds.

But this also gave me an idea for an alternative way of handling Tactics, because it can get a little silly, for high skill characters vs. low skill characters, giving them rerolls equal to MoS, introducing a risk vs. reward system would be more interesting. So before you roll the Quick Contest, you have to decide how much of a penalty you're willing to take, and you get one reroll per -2 taken. Something I'll play with anyway.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Per rolls for offsetting range penalties isn't too bad, but the actions to shoot a gun and aim a gun are basically identical. Easy answer: try it. See if it breaks anything.

Will do. I've seen suggestions to base ranged attacks on Per, and I didn't want to go that far, there's clearly a very large element of coordination and precision involved, but I felt basing Aim rolls on it might be fair.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

For the "aim at two folks" thing, that's pretty unlikely without supernatural/superhuman advantages. For an action movie, though . . . bring it on. -6 to each Aim roll is pretty harsh, so booyah.

Another way to do it is to look at modeling it as sequential. take enough Rapid Strike and/or Extra Attack to Aim/Shoot/Aim/Shoot. That IS realistic.

I'm trying to avoid this campaign feeling *too* close to an action movie, the idea is that if you have superpowers you can recreate the style of an action movie (and one of the characters, who has enhanced senses, will definitely get Enhanced Tracking), otherwise you're relegated to what's realistic with unrealistically high skill.