Running the opposition in GURPS

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Icelander

William Munny didn't perform fancy bullet-dodging kung fu acrobatics. He couldn't have, anyway. Nor was he a spectacular shot. But when it really came down to it, he had the ability to act decisively while the ordinary people, even sherriff's deputies who might theoretically have been as good shots as he was, were still Mentally Stunned. To me, that's a lot cooler as a superpower than whatever Marvel or DC 'heroes' show in what passes for movies these days, because it's something a very few real people have actually had, but most people never will, regardless of training.

Looking at the scene, I suspect he's more than a merely competent shot. Not necessarily Pistol-18, but maybe a skill of 14 or 15 with a level or two of Night Vision (the lighting is bad enough that I have trouble telling the deputies apart at points). Some of the deputies might well only have Pistol-10.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Looking at the scene, I suspect he's more than a merely competent shot. Not necessarily Pistol-18, but maybe a skill of 14 or 15 with a level or two of Night Vision (the lighting is bad enough that I have trouble telling the deputies apart at points). Some of the deputies might well only have Pistol-10.

Well, Will Munny was established in the movie as being a poor shot. He's just able to shoot people as easily as ordinary people shoot targets.

Truthfully, if there are no factors like terror and adrenaline interfering, hitting a man-sized target at 0-10 yards away is trivial. Hitting several in a row, without pausing in betweem, is still fairly mechanically easy. Hell, it's easy enough so that I could do it, and I've a grand total of one day playing around with real pistols, i.e. not air guns or .22 target guns.

Will Munny had high effective skill in GURPS terms when it came to killing people. By RAW, that's high Guns skill (and any other skill he might use to kill people), with a Quirk that he doesn't get positive TDMs for plinking, target practice or similar.

In my games, I use either a 15-point Talent with all combat skills or an Advantage that is essentially a metatrait that gives a bonus to DX, IQ, HT, Per and Will, with Emergencies Only, Skills Only and a limitation that it can't give a greater bonus than lack of stress, threat or pressure would give. Comes to 25-30/level, depending on how you rate the last limitation and how you round.

Reason I prefer that way is that I dislike having to raise every combat skill individually to model a character that isn't really that skilled with any weapon, just has ice in his veins and is capable of violent and decisive action when called upon, no matter what weapon skill he may be using.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Well, Will Munny was established in the movie as being a poor shot. He's just able to shoot people as easily as ordinary people shoot targets...

Will Munny had high effective skill in GURPS terms when it came to killing people. By RAW, that's high Guns skill (and any other skill he might use to kill people), with a Quirk that he doesn't get positive TDMs for plinking, target practice or similar.

It might be a case of what psychologists call state-dependent learning, i.e. he shoots better drunk, because most of his shooting experience happened while drunk. In GURPS that would be a non-humorous case of the Drunken Fighting perk, I suppose.

The other thing about this is, GURPS penalties for poor lighting are pretty harsh. Powers: Enhanced Senses says gaslight (used in the saloon in the climax) is -2 if you're right next to the source, -3 a yard away, and -4 five yards away. That's a big penalty, and part of me doubts it's realistic. But I have no practical experience in that area—my experience of guns is almost entirely limited to Boy Scout camp.

[(E)]

Originally Posted by Icelander

In my games, I use either a 15-point Talent with all combat skills or an Advantage that is essentially a metatrait that gives a bonus to DX, IQ, HT, Per and Will, with Emergencies Only, Skills Only and a limitation that it can't give a greater bonus than lack of stress, threat or pressure would give. Comes to 25-30/level, depending on how you rate the last limitation and how you round.

I'm swiping that one.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Truthfully, if there are no factors like terror and adrenaline interfering, hitting a man-sized target at 0-10 yards away is trivial.

Well, assuming good visibility and adequate time to aim. A lot of missing is because of poor visibility (I'm not sure where he is, so I'll shoot at the thing that might be him) and rushing the shot (if I take the time to aim properly, and he doesn't, he might get lucky and shoot me before I shoot him, so I'll shoot as soon as I think I might hit).

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

The other thing about this is, GURPS penalties for poor lighting are pretty harsh. Powers: Enhanced Senses says gaslight (used in the saloon in the climax) is -2 if you're right next to the source, -3 a yard away, and -4 five yards away. That's a big penalty, and part of me doubts it's realistic. But I have no practical experience in that area—my experience of guns is almost entirely limited to Boy Scout camp.

My experience is that the first thing that happens in poor lighting is that you can't use iron sights. Modern pistol sights with the luminous dots/strips help with that, but using those doesn't make for a very accurate sight (probably Acc 0, allows you to shoot 'unaimed' without extra penalties). In a shoot-out like the saloon in Unforsaken people aren't using their sights (such as they were on pistols of the time), but are relying on their kinesthetic sense (pointing their gun by 'feel'), and I think realistically when doing that you'd take the worst of a large penalty for that style of shooting or the lighting, so moderately poor light wouldn't make things any worse than your lack of aim was already making them.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

It might be a case of what psychologists call state-dependent learning, i.e. he shoots better drunk, because most of his shooting experience happened while drunk.

Or "I'm better when I move"

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rupert

so moderately poor light wouldn't make things any worse than your lack of aim was already making them.

This is a general problem with skill modifiers; realistically, a lot of penalties and bonuses are non-additive, just use the worst.

[Michael Thayne]

Something I'd still not sure how to handle well, from comment by Kromm in an old thread:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Even then, though, the GM should still play mookish gang members with next-to-no combat skills realistically, not as fearless kill-bots... even if they're brave, they're not going to be professionally sealing all exits and flanking like pros unless they have Tactics (and, if the GM is being fair, beat the PC in a Quick Contest of Tactics); rather, they're going to be rushing in to deliver a curb-stomping.

. . . if random hoodlums with Brawling-10 somehow disperse in a way that lets them corner the PC, take his flanks, and block all escape routes . . . well, that's Death By GM. There's no ability that works against it.

When I read this, I think, "is cornering / flanking someone them really that sophisticated tactics-wise?" It seems like something a lot of people would do instinctively? But maybe not. This is the kind of subtle tactical decision I'm really not sure how to handle when running bad guys.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Something I'd still not sure how to handle well, from comment by Kromm in an old thread:

When I read this, I think, "is cornering / flanking someone them really that sophisticated tactics-wise?" It seems like something a lot of people would do instinctively? But maybe not. This is the kind of subtle tactical decision I'm really not sure how to handle when running bad guys.

To be fair, the kind of people who do it 'instinctively' are demonstrating a modest-to-high effective skill in something that allows competence at small unit tactics. For savvy and experienced gang members, that may well be the Perks One Task Wonder (Soldier; Carrying out a tactical plan in a small unit melee) and Teamwork. For a leader of a violent gang or an enforcer who has carried out multiple organized murders (think Chris Partlow in The Wire), it may be actual Tactics skill, perhaps with an Optional Specialization in Guerilla or Urban Warfare, as well as techniques for stealthy ambushes in urban terrain.

Even pack-hunting animals are using Perks that allow them skill checks at Per or higher to perform typical hunting tactics.