Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-08-2018, 04:03 AM   #1
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Critical success on 4+ dice

Defending and Dodging, AM p 18:
4 and 5 are still automatic hits; 20 and above automatic misses; 21 and 22 are dropped weapons; and 23 and 24 are broken weapons

RAW defending eliminates chance of 3x damage.

The new rules on weapons expertise mean there will be plenty of rolls to hit on 5D. By extrapolation of the 4D rule, this would eliminate possibility of 2x damage as well.

That's fine, but just wondering whether anyone has tried shifting things, eg
4 on 4D = 3x damage
5 on 4D = 2x damage
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 09:44 AM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Critical success on 4+ dice

Sure, it's hardly even a factor though because the odds are:

4 on 4d: 1 in 1,296
5 on 5d: 1 in 7,776

Somewhat trickier is looking at the odds for each roll for each number of dice, choosing what you want to happen to the odds in each case, and then finding numbers you like.

e.g. ITL gives numbers that more or less keep the same odds at the ends of higher-die rolls, but do you want that, or do you want the odds of crit success/fail to shift for harder rolls?

Unfortunately, when I've looked at it, it seemed to me there weren't really especially convenient numbers to use that worked out the ways I was hoping for with one die roll for each number of dice.

It might work better to use the ITL "same odds" system, but if you actually do roll that, then have the figure roll the same number again - if they make it, it's a double. Roll again. If they make that, it's a triple. Or something along those lines but with some statistics checking the odds.

Last edited by Skarg; 08-08-2018 at 09:48 AM.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 10:27 AM   #3
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Critical success on 4+ dice

Another strange effect is that a starting 32 point character with ST16,DX8 and Full plate is actually playable. He misses a lot, but he can also take a lot of damage and he doesn't care about temporary negative adjustments to adjDX. He still lives for the 5 auto hit.

I am not saying it is a good character, but it is not the worst and some normal characters like 12/12 Broadsword/small shield guy won't win more than twice as often.

So for characters that rely on auto hit, these rules really matters. :-)
Nils_Lindeberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 12:20 PM   #4
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Critical success on 4+ dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nils_Lindeberg View Post
I am not saying it is a good character, but it is not the worst and some normal characters like 12/12 Broadsword/small shield guy won't win more than twice as often.
Depends on what they're fighting, no?
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 02:26 PM   #5
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Critical success on 4+ dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Sure, it's hardly even a factor though because the odds are:

4 on 4d: 1 in 1,296
5 on 5d: 1 in 7,776

Somewhat trickier is looking at the odds for each roll for each number of dice, choosing what you want to happen to the odds in each case, and then finding numbers you like.

e.g. ITL gives numbers that more or less keep the same odds at the ends of higher-die rolls, but do you want that, or do you want the odds of crit success/fail to shift for harder rolls?

Unfortunately, when I've looked at it, it seemed to me there weren't really especially convenient numbers to use that worked out the ways I was hoping for with one die roll for each number of dice.

It might work better to use the ITL "same odds" system, but if you actually do roll that, then have the figure roll the same number again - if they make it, it's a double. Roll again. If they make that, it's a triple. Or something along those lines but with some statistics checking the odds.
Had anyone talked about using different colored dice? I haven't looked at the probabilities for that yet...
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 03:08 PM   #6
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Critical success on 4+ dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Had anyone talked about using different colored dice? I haven't looked at the probabilities for that yet...
Not that I recall, but it's certainly an easy way to get the exact same odds of crit success/failure. Just always have 3 dice the same color, and use those dice only to determine the usual end results on 3 dice, with the other dice only mattering if you haven't rolled a 3-5 or 16-18.

But that's only good IF that is really what you want.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 06:44 PM   #7
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Critical success on 4+ dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Depends on what they're fighting, no?
It's from my sim so it is a cross of most possible 32p characters.
So if is pretty fair. :-)

I haven't included higher point characters yet, but I just added an option for weapon expertise.
Nils_Lindeberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 11:46 PM   #8
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Critical success on 4+ dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Not that I recall, but it's certainly an easy way to get the exact same odds of crit success/failure. Just always have 3 dice the same color, and use those dice only to determine the usual end results on 3 dice, with the other dice only mattering if you haven't rolled a 3-5 or 16-18.

But that's only good IF that is really what you want.
I think it is.
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 05:51 AM   #9
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Critical success on 4+ dice

Below I've added a table of probabilities for critical success/failures on 3d, 4d, and 5d attacks. For 4D and 5D I've also included the required rolls, taken from RAW for 4D, and what turned out to be very close for 5D.

Code:
Outcome .    	3D .    4D .            5D
3x damage	0.5	zero .      	zero
2x damage	1.4	0.1 .    	zero
auto-hit .  	2.8	0.3 .    	0.01
auto-miss	2.8	2.7 (20)	2.6 (24)
drop wpn     	1.4	2.3 (21-22)	2.5 (25-26)
break wpn    	0.5	0.4 (23-24)	0.8 (27-30)
Pardon the extra .'s they are inserted to get columns aligned
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 05:54 AM   #10
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Critical success on 4+ dice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Just always have 3 dice the same color, and use those dice only to determine the usual end results on 3 dice, with the other dice only mattering if you haven't rolled a 3-5 or 16-18.
That's an elegant solution, works regardless of number of extra dice and yet requires no new numbers/cut-offs to memorize.

I am a little worried that increasing the number of dice rolled for difficult attempts doesn't scale beautifully if you don't slide the chance of crit successes as well as failures.

If generalised beyond combat, it also means that saving throws, eg on 5D are not only basically impossible but remove the fun possibilities of an unlikely critical success.

I think because of this, we will give Skarg's suggestion a try.

Last edited by RobW; 08-09-2018 at 06:00 AM.
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.