GURPS Magic - Enchanting and the Scroll spell

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Charged Universal Scrolls are basically spellstones on a piece of paper but with class, although I haven't checked the relative pricing.

Alright, I went back and looked at the prices. A charged universal scroll (ie, one which anyone can cast from, at no FP cost, with a fixed duration if maintainable) as per the DF rules costs 5x as much as a regular scroll.

Worth noting, though, DF charges a flat $20/energy cost of the initial spell for buying Scrolls - and since DF goes with a price of $20/energy for Slow and Sure enchantment, this means that Scrolls in DF only take as much energy as the base spell to create (but still 1 whole day per energy). GURPS Magic charges 20x as much energy.

Alternate explanation: in DF scrolls still have the reduced energy cost, are usually being created with Q&D casting, and scroll sellers are enjoying a 20x markup over regular magic items.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Bruno

GURPS doesn't have a lot of rules outside of the Dungeon Fantasy series about what's needed to learn a spell in the first place. The Scroll enchantment failing to mention being able to lean the spell off of it is hardly evidence either way - there's no real alternative rules.

Unless you presume that because there's no rules for spellbooks, there are no spellbooks and magic can only be learned by Wild Talent or oral teaching.

Of course, in Dungeon Fantasy: Sages, there are spell books. There are also modification to scrolls too, though - Dungeon Fantasy adds Universal scrolls that non-mages can use and Charged scrolls that provide all the FP needed (and Charged Universal scrolls that do both). Charged Universal Scrolls are basically spellstones on a piece of paper but with class, although I haven't checked the relative pricing.

I also wrote the spellbook rules from Hidden Knowledge specifically for those who wanted to emulate that part of That Other Game.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Alright, I went back and looked at the prices.

This post is a bit incoherent.
Scrolls in Magic don't have an energy cost. I was thinking about Spell Stones, but compared them to baseline DF scrolls, not charged universal scrolls. Scrolls, of course, must be crafted at 1 day/energy. It's not clear if Charged Universal increases the effective energy (and therefore that fixed time to craft) or if it just makes it more expensive.

So, trying this again:
Charged universal scrolls: Take at least ($spell_energy) days to enchant, possibly as long as ($spell_energyx 5) days to enchant. Can be used by anyone. No significant material costs. Can be used to learn spells in DF (which is where charged universal is from, so might as well take all the features). Cost at least 5 * $slow_sure_cost * $spell_energy (more if a higher skill scroll, which costs more than the baseline $20).

Spellstones: Cost $spell_energy x 20 total energy, which will quickly kick them into Slow and Sure territory, and thus similar creation time to a scroll. Creation can be sped up by having two or more casters work on the enchantment, unlike a scroll. There is a significant material costs for a suitable gem. Can have Limiting Enchantments. Can't be used to learn the spell. Cost is at least 20 $slow_sure_cost * $spell_energy plus a gem otherwise suitable for a Powerstone.


In both cases, it must have a set duration, cannot be extended from the users FP/ER/PI/Whatever.

[wmervine4]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

DF4 also includes rules for learning a spell from a scroll. It's quick, not 100% guaranteed, still costs CPs, and depletes the scroll.

Really? It costs CP(s) and has a chance of failure? That seems like a horrible deal. Who would want to throw money away on purchasing a scroll for a chance to learn a spell when there are more reliable ways to spend your time and be guaranteed to learn something? I suppose if it has the chance of skipping 200 hours of study with a teacher or 400 hours of self study then it might be worth throwing away a CP or two, but this just doesn't feel right to me. Only my opinion, obviously.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by wmervine4

Really? It costs CP(s) and has a chance of failure? That seems like a horrible deal. Who would want to throw money away on purchasing a scroll for a chance to learn a spell when there are more reliable ways to spend your time and be guaranteed to learn something?

What makes you think the scroll would be one the PC purchased? It's DF, it was probably loot, and probably a spell that would not otherwise be available.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by wmervine4

Really? It costs CP(s) and has a chance of failure? That seems like a horrible deal. Who would want to throw money away on purchasing a scroll for a chance to learn a spell when there are more reliable ways to spend your time and be guaranteed to learn something? I suppose if it has the chance of skipping 200 hours of study with a teacher or 400 hours of self study then it might be worth throwing away a CP or two, but this just doesn't feel right to me. Only my opinion, obviously.

It only costs CPs if the required roll succeeds, so it's not that bad. Also, the chances of failure are minimal, but exist. The rules are solid, trust me, and usually they are used to gain a spell in the middle of a delve, or to learn a spell that is not learnable normally (a spell the GM considered secret for the game).

The rules for magical writing are IMHO worth the price of the supplement, the two templates are just gravy.

[wmervine4]

Originally Posted by Anthony

What makes you think the scroll would be one the PC purchased? It's DF, it was probably loot, and probably a spell that would not otherwise be available.

Yeah, good call. I was thinking about loot being a more likely way to acquire scrolls after I typed that.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

It only costs CPs if the required roll succeeds, so it's not that bad. Also, the chances of failure are minimal, but exist. The rules are solid, trust me, and usually they are used to gain a spell in the middle of a delve, or to learn a spell that is not learnable normally (a spell the GM considered secret for the game).

The rules for magical writing are IMHO worth the price of the supplement, the two templates are just gravy.

Alright, alright. You've convinced me. :-)