Why Does GURPS Hate Enchanting So Much?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Anthony

D&D 3rd edition (and its relatives) has enchantments that are fast and useful and reasonably priced relative to PC wealth. Most game systems either don't permit enchanting at all, or make it fast enough to be a rational choice for PCs.

Year right it was expensive in a way no other class had to pay. Experience point, which if you use those valuable feat you ended up hurting your chacter in doing so.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Year right it was expensive in a way no other class had to pay. Experience point, which if you use those valuable feat you ended up hurting your chacter in doing so.

You can buy the feats to slow your character's leveling down to make things other characters may find simply lying around under a dead orc. Ooh.

[scc]

Rouge, I think he was talking about the MARKET price, not the costs to make a magic item

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by scc

Rouge, I think he was talking about the MARKET price, not the costs to make a magic item

That like saying ignoring the time cost in making magical items in GURPS. basically ignoring the most significant cost in the processes and calling it cheap and easy.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by scc

Rouge, I think he was talking about the MARKET price, not the costs to make a magic item

Time is a very important cost to all manufacturing.
If Hostess could only make 12 Twinkies a year, it wouldn't matter if it only cost them 12 cents in ingredients. That heavenly cake would still be hella' expensive in man hour value.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Year right it was expensive in a way no other class had to pay. Experience point, which if you use those valuable feat you ended up hurting your chacter in doing so.

Oh no, 30 xp to make that wand of cure light wounds that can heal an average of 275 points of damage before being consumed. Surely this will drastically hurt your ability to advance. As for the valuable feats, wizards get scroll for free, and you're not going to need a lot of crafting feats.

In any case, my point wasn't that enchanting is cheap in other game systems. Just that enchanting is fast enough to be actually practical for adventurers to do, as opposed to spending 3 years to make a crappy wand of fireballs.

[spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Year right it was expensive in a way no other class had to pay. Experience point, which if you use those valuable feat you ended up hurting your chacter in doing so.

3.x dnd was a weird, poorly designed game, in that much of it was counterintuitive. The only people who can craft gear are casters, and they typically can't craft much of value until sometime around level 7-8. At level 7 they're already stronger and more versatile than a typical noncaster, and can afford to miss a level to get the exact gear they (and the party) need, rather than taking what comes from random rolls. They still have better options like save or die spells, polymorph, and such when it comes to combat, and even better options for versatility out of combat. At the point that they're a level behind, they get a large xp bonus to catch up. As long as they stay a level behind, they get more xp, which they can use to craft more gear, and the power balance moved more strongly in their favor all the way to level 20. Just another reason why 3.x dnd was called caster edition, since noncasters couldn't sacrifice xp for better gear.

That's just not obvious until you've played several campaigns with a dm that didn't put magic marts in, and have started to look at crafting as an option. The first time you play a campaign with a crafting wizard though, it's pretty clear. You get the exact gear you need to be effective in combat, he's still plenty useful in combat, and he gets more xp than others per encounter.

This can be more or less true depending on the DM. Some gave flat xp bonuses more often than combat xp, which wouldn't favor the crafter, others never provide downtime to craft, railroading the party into the next adventure each time one is finished, and some allowed players to buy any magic they wanted, which made spending a feat or 2 on crafting more painful. Every dm I ever had hated magic marts, but would give plenty of down time because otherwise the crafter bought a feat they can't use, which would have made them look unfair, and made the whole party mad since everyone got denied their custom gear that was so crucial in 3.x.

[spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

You can buy the feats to slow your character's leveling down to make things other characters may find simply lying around under a dead orc. Ooh.

Orc has a random rolled item though, a potion of uselessness, a cursed ring, a +1 sword of angel slaying, a druid spell scroll when no drudis in party, etc. The party desperately needs specific wands, stat boosters, armor and weapons with the right effects, and class specific items like mobility boosters for fighters.

[roguebfl]

No they can't afford to miss a level. missing a level both lowers their caster level, and the DC level of spells, When they are on par their their peers the that make the target numbers just break even. Bissing the level they spells fail either partially or fulling more often than not. cause at least 4 feats simple to get back on par.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Oh no, 30 xp to make that wand of cure light wounds that can heal an average of 275 points of damage before being consumed. Surely this will drastically hurt your ability to advance. As for the valuable feats, wizards get scroll for free, and you're not going to need a lot of crafting feats.

In any case, my point wasn't that enchanting is cheap in other game systems. Just that enchanting is fast enough to be actually practical for adventurers to do, as opposed to spending 3 years to make a crappy wand of fireballs.

and that only 30xp wand also only costs chump change in coin to buy in town by the time you can afford to buy the Craft Wand Feat

[scc]

@Spacemonkey, non-casters weren't allowed to make magic items, which is both pretty reasonable and I'd say normal (GURPS also makes that restriction).

Non-casters could however take ranks in craft skills allowing them to make mundane items