Jamming plastique in my bullets; damage for TL8- explosive rounds

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by HANS

Not any longer, which is what we're talking about. The mechanical fuzes have been or are getting increasingly replaced by fuzeless rounds. The 20x102mm equivalent is the PGU-28/B. This was adopted by the USAF in 1988.

Noted.

Originally Posted by HANS

Ahem. I'm not aware of a single round that uses both a depleted uranium penetrator and an explosive load. All rounds using DU that are in service with the US, Russia, France, and the UK (which are the only major users, IIRC) are kinetic energy-only rounds with no explosive payload.

We used to have them for 20MM. Mind you APIT was more common but we did store some at my base. And I think the 30mm rounds for the A-10 used explosive as well and were definately AP rounds using DU. Again this is back in the early 80s and nonclassified.

Originally Posted by HANS

Unlike a mechanical fuze, the incendiary compound in a pyrotechnically-fuzed round is not dead weight, but actually adds to the effect. I call this an improvement. It is also cheaper than a fuze, and costs and weighs about as much as its equivalent weight in explosive (ie, it is cheaper than a mechanically-fuzed round).

Cheers

HANS

Well I think an inceindiary round would be much more effective per weight as an antipersonal for small arms then an explosive round. however that wasnt what the OP was asking about so my answer focused on that. And anything you have to add to the bullet other then the explosive detracts from the crushing explosion.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Refplace

And I think the 30mm rounds for the A-10 used explosive as well and were definately AP rounds using DU. Again this is back in the early 80s and nonclassified.

Wikipedia lists an API DU round and an HEI round for the GAU-8, and notes that the normal load is a mix.

[HANS]

Originally Posted by Refplace

We used to have them for 20MM. Mind you APIT was more common but we did store some at my base.

Really? I would be very surprised if this was true. The only DU round listed for 20x102mm cannon (the only 20mm calibre used by the USAF) in every available source from Jane's Air-Launched Weapons downwards is the MK 149 series of APDSDU rounds for the Navy's MK 15 Phalanx system (replaced in 1988 by the MK 149 MOD 5 which lacks DU and is just APDS). That, of course, has no explosive content. There's no DU round listed in the M50-series, M220-series, or PGU-series of US military rounds in 20x102mm.

Originally Posted by Refplace

And I think the 30mm rounds for the A-10 used explosive as well and were definately AP rounds using DU. Again this is back in the early 80s and nonclassified.

No. The GAU-8/A uses the PGU-13/B, which is an explosive round (HEI in mil-speak, SAPHE in GURPS terms). The PGU-14/B is an AP round without explosive filler (API in mil-speak, APDU in GURPS terms).

Originally Posted by Refplace

And anything you have to add to the bullet other then the explosive detracts from the crushing explosion.

No doubt. But you have to add something, otherwise the stuff won't explode (because in the interest of safety, you're hopefully using an explosive that doesn't go off too easily). My point was that the modern pyrotechnically-detonated, fuzeless explosive rounds are cheaper and more effective than those with a mechanical fuze, and that instead of wasting space in the projectile for the fuze, you get at least another active component (the incendiary). At least in cannon calibres, pyrotechnical fuzing also requires less space than mechanical fuzing (ie, more room for explosive filler, ie more bang), but I have no data for actual small arms rounds. Since mechanical fuzes take up proportionally more space the smaller the round gets, it is probably true there, as well.

Cheers

HANS

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Jerron

Even if stable enough for firing, and at a stretch for dropping, carrying, and looking at, the logistics of storage and transport would make it unusable for military use. You could not even stack them in the same section of the munitions dump as conventional rounds.

That was sort of what I was driving at - impact sensitive explosives not really being safe enough for anything except primers, for which you don't have a whole lot of choice if you want them to fire when the pin hits them.