07-01-2009, 05:39 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Copenhagen
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[HIGH-TECH]Recoil for submachine guns and machine pistols
Recently I just skimmed some of the weapons tables in GURPS High-Tech, and I noticed something for the first time that struck me as rather odd. All submachine guns have the same recoil, namely 2.
I am no weapons expert, and I have only fired a few firearms in my life, but it seems somehow wrong to me that e.g. a M1921 .45 ACP or a MAC-10 .45 should have the same recoil as a FN P90 or a MP5 or whatever; mind you, I have never fired any of these weapons in my life, but when I've seen real life footage of these guns fired on full auto, it seemed to me that there was significantly more recoil with the Thompson than with a P90 (or many other SMGs for that matter). Furthermore, looking at the pistols, one kan see that a M1911 .45 ACP has more recoil than a 9mm Browning Hi-Power. And yet a .45 calibre SMG has no more recoil than a 9mm SMG. There was a difference in the Basic Set, but now no more. So, am I just wrong, and SMGs have no appreciable difference in recoil or is this legitimate errata? What gives? Cheers, Max
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07-01-2009, 05:54 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [HIGH-TECH]Recoil for submachine guns and machine pistols
Certainly there are differences in felt recoil between various submachine guns, but those differences are below the granularity level of GURPS. The ST stat for the weapons, however, is affected by felt recoil as well as weight.
The reason that large bore pistols have a higher Rcl stat than submachine guns of the same calibre is that the pistols are much lighter. They lack enough mass to act as a counterweight. The SMGs, however, are more than heavy enough to be stable when firing what is, after all, a pistol cartridge.
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07-01-2009, 06:14 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Copenhagen
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Re: [HIGH-TECH]Recoil for submachine guns and machine pistols
Quote:
Cheers, Max
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07-01-2009, 06:51 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Yorkshire, UK
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Re: [HIGH-TECH]Recoil for submachine guns and machine pistols
Just to be clear: I've never fired a gun in my life, so I have no real world expectation of what 'recoil' might mean.
In GURPS terms, the Recoil (Rcl) stat for Firearms is used to calculate the number of hits for RoF2+ weapons. (See B271 and Rapid Fire - B373). That's as much as I need to know as far as playing the game is concerned! If you search for Recoil in this forum I think you'll find this question and the following argument more than a few times! |
07-01-2009, 07:03 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [HIGH-TECH]Recoil for submachine guns and machine pistols
Quote:
If you don't want all pistols being Rcl 3+, the logical conclusion is that the Mac-10 is probably large enough to absorb the kick.
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07-01-2009, 10:08 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Copenhagen
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Re: [HIGH-TECH]Recoil for submachine guns and machine pistols
Quote:
Of course, I also noted that the MP5/10A3 had Rcl 3 as the only SMG in High-Tech, but then again, the 10×25mm Auto is one hell of a round. Thanks for the input. Cheers, Max
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07-01-2009, 11:52 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Reykjavik, Iceland
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Re: [HIGH-TECH]Recoil for submachine guns and machine pistols
Quote:
The MP5/10 is not a very popular gun, it had to much "kick". The 10x25 Auto (Norma) is a very powerfull round, the FBI used a reduced load for their agents called the 10x25 FBI load by gun nuts. You will also notice that 10x25 mm pistols get ST 10 and whopping Rcl of 4.
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07-01-2009, 12:31 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
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Re: [HIGH-TECH]Recoil for submachine guns and machine pistols
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ST matters for the first/single shot because it's accounting for not just recoil, but also holding the gun steady. A weak grip (owner's ST below the gun's ST rating) means that as soon as the powder goes off, that's enough force to "jerk" the gun away from the target the shootist is aiming at. A firmer grip is necessary to keep the gun steady as the bullet moves down the barrel.
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07-01-2009, 01:38 PM | #9 |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: [HIGH-TECH]Recoil for submachine guns and machine pistols
Which, IIRC, often failed to cycle autoloaders. If you notice, the 10mm Auto was standard FBI issue for about 12 seconds.
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high-tech, recoil, submachine gun |
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