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Old 09-17-2008, 04:48 AM   #1
Rasmus Wagner
 
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Default Deconstructing Rapier Wit

Rapier Wit has always struck me as an advantage open for abuse by a determined munchkin, so as an exercise, I'll try to reconstruct it from Affliction.

The effect is stunning, so that's bog standard Affliction 1 (10 points).
Mental stun rather than physical is a 0-point special effect.
A contest of Public Speaking vs. Will is Affliction with Malediction +100%, using Skills with Abilitites (Powers, p. xxx), and Based on Will, +20%.
It is a Sense-Based Malediction, -20%, in that the target must hear you. It also has a -10% language-based accesibility limitation.

That's 10+120%-30% = 19 points.

But wait, it's a free action, and it can affect groups! And it doesn't suffer range penalties!

First, I'd add Area Effect, 4 yards radius, at +100%. By the RAW, it's not allowed for a Malediction, but we'll give it a pass. That should allow me to fast-talk everyone within 4 yards at no penalty. Seems about right. The penalty for groups, as well as the requirement that they have something in common, seems pretty well covered by the notes on Area Effect in Powers (p. 100).
Second, Reduced Time. Not legal for any sort of attack power, but I'll take it anyway. +20%.

Now, we're at 31 points. So, what other limitations apply?

A few Advantages offer immunity. That's a 0-point feature. A few disadvantages offer penalties - again, 0 point feature. Special effects on critical failure & success. Nothing that warrants a modifier. Ah, there it is: "Any modifier the GM assigns based on your description of the verbal attack". Eyeballing it at -25% (-10, at -5% pr. -1, halved for a sliding scale, disregarding positive modifiers), we end out at

10 +120%-30%+120%-25% = 29 points. To match the [5] cost in Characters, the modifier for GM arbitration would have to be -235%.

BTW, for "free action attack" powers, I'd use Extra Attack (single ability, -20%) [20], instead of Reduced Time.
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Old 09-17-2008, 04:54 AM   #2
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Deconstructing Rapier Wit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmus Wagner
But wait, it's a free action, and it can affect groups! And it doesn't suffer range penalties!

First, I'd add Area Effect, 4 yards radius, at +100%. By the RAW, it's not allowed for a Malediction,
Why not? I don't see anything in either Area Effect or Malediction that prevent it, and plenty of logical builds require it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmus Wagner
but we'll give it a pass. That should allow me to fast-talk everyone within 4 yards at no penalty. Seems about right. The penalty for groups, as well as the requirement that they have something in common, seems pretty well covered by the notes on Area Effect in Powers (p. 100).
Second, Reduced Time. Not legal for any sort of attack power, but I'll take it anyway. +20%.
Actually, while Rapier Wit is a free action, it's not an immediate action. You can do other things and speak an insult, but the GM is not obligated to make that instant, by any means. When I have Rapier Wit in my games, I usually have characters require two or three rounds to deliver a good insult. If I were trying to peg this as a modifier, I'd call it Requires Recharge.
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: Deconstructing Rapier Wit

Do I really need to tell you it's a Legacy Trait? Besides, Kromm said it requires a VERY meaningful comment to use against someone.
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Old 09-17-2008, 06:56 AM   #4
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Default Re: Deconstructing Rapier Wit

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Originally Posted by Molokh
Do I really need to tell you it's a Legacy Trait? Besides, Kromm said it requires a VERY meaningful comment to use against someone.
Does "your mother smells of elderberries" count?
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Old 09-17-2008, 10:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: Deconstructing Rapier Wit

You have to know something meaningful about your specific target, and then turn that into an insult. Rapier Wit is worthless against mysterious hit men and spies, randomly encountered thugs, golems and zombies with no personal life, strangers on the street, and anybody with any skill at all at hiding his true self or past. It's specifically intended for old rivals, public figures, and others you know something about. If you want it to work on just about any ordinary person, you must add Words of Power, +100% -- and if you want it to affect golems, robots, undead, and so on, you'll also need Cosmic, +300%.

I'm not saying that it still isn't somewhat cheap, but it's probably a good idea to start the price comparisons in light of the correct assumptions.

And I hasten to add that it's a cinematic trait for silly cinematic campaigns, where things like Bulletproof Nudity and Melee Etiquette are free for everybody already. You're effectively paying 5 points for another cinematic rule that only benefits you. Arguably, that's 4 points more than the perk it ought to be in a game like that.
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Old 09-17-2008, 04:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: Deconstructing Rapier Wit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
You have to know something meaningful about your specific target, and then turn that into an insult. Rapier Wit is worthless against mysterious hit men and spies, randomly encountered thugs, golems and zombies with no personal life, strangers on the street, and anybody with any skill at all at hiding his true self or past. It's specifically intended for old rivals, public figures, and others you know something about. If you want it to work on just about any ordinary person, you must add Words of Power, +100% -- and if you want it to affect golems, robots, undead, and so on, you'll also need Cosmic, +300%.
OK, I'd been laboring under a miscomception for a long time. I'd assumed it worked a la Spider-Man, who keeps up a string of witticisms and insults during his battles to try and irritate his opponents into making a mistake, but he also uses it against opponents he knows nothing about.
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Old 09-17-2008, 10:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Deconstructing Rapier Wit

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Originally Posted by cybermancer2k1
OK, I'd been laboring under a miscomception for a long time. I'd assumed it worked a la Spider-Man, who keeps up a string of witticisms and insults during his battles to try and irritate his opponents into making a mistake, but he also uses it against opponents he knows nothing about.
I remember thinking the same thing back in 3E. Spider-Man doesn't really qualify for Rapier Wit in most sources... his ability to confound some opponents is probably better modeled as Public-Speaking with an optional specialty.
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Deconstructing Rapier Wit

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery
I remember thinking the same thing back in 3E. Spider-Man doesn't really qualify for Rapier Wit in most sources... his ability to confound some opponents is probably better modeled as Public-Speaking with an optional specialty.
Now that's an interesting thought - use the rules in Martial Arts to create Feints based on Public Speaking, or Psychology, or something
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:45 AM   #9
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Default Re: Deconstructing Rapier Wit

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery
I remember thinking the same thing back in 3E. Spider-Man doesn't really qualify for Rapier Wit in most sources... his ability to confound some opponents is probably better modeled as Public-Speaking with an optional specialty.
Deadpool does it better, btw.
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Old 09-18-2008, 08:21 AM   #10
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Default Re: Deconstructing Rapier Wit

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Deadpool does it better, btw.
I'm outta there, but I read the Wiki article on him. Did we really need another anti-hero?
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