Farming and prehistory

Luke Bunyip · 11-19-2014, 01:49 AM

Just found this great article (for those of us that are not the polymath which is Bill) on prehistory humanity and the development of agriculture.

Quote:

It's hard to say what, exactly, Çatalhöyük was. Was it a city or just some kind of bizarre, outsized village? We know it lasted for millennia, with thousands of people living there continuously from about 7500 BCE to 5700 BCE. Perhaps we might say that was the closest thing to a city in the Neolithic, since hundreds more people lived there than in typical villages nearby. But it had none of the features we associate with the grand, walled cities that emerged thousands of years later in Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

Might be of interest for folk trying their hand at a faux Stone Age/Early Bronze Age campaign.

Green-Neck · 11-25-2014, 02:17 AM

An interesting read, thanks.

thrash · 11-25-2014, 05:45 AM

Living in the American Southwest, I'm immediately struck by how much the image of Çatalhöyük resembles ancient and modern pueblo sites, particularly Chaco Canyon. Those, too, were abruptly abandoned, probably due to overfarming, though after only a couple of centuries -- perhaps the climate was more marginal here.

I find the proposal that a conflict of belief systems led to the collapse of these megavillages unconvincing as it stands. They had endured at their greatest extent for far longer than the half-life of ideas in most human transitions (about five generations). Even if it does explain the collapse, the proposal just raises other questions in its place: how did the system endure for so long? what changed?

Also, there is research to show that the transition from tribal societies to hierarchical states has occured at a higher population threshold (around 20,000, if I recall correctly) in other parts of the world, even in the absence of agriculture per se. It doesn't seem surprising to find that the resurrected cities of late pre-history might have a different population base, and thus cross the threshold when Çatalhöyük and its like did not.

Flyndaran · 11-25-2014, 07:32 AM

Cultural schisms destroyed it? I would put my money on climate fluctuations forcing a crash in population. Stone age people weren't living with a huge safety margin.

RGTraynor · 11-26-2014, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Cultural schisms destroyed it? I would put my money on climate fluctuations forcing a crash in population. Stone age people weren't living with a huge safety margin.

Yeah. The article's conclusions are conceivable, I suppose, but they're all Wild Ass Guesses without a shred of proof to back them up.

DanHoward · 11-27-2014, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Cultural schisms destroyed it? I would put my money on climate fluctuations forcing a crash in population. Stone age people weren't living with a huge safety margin.

Most likely it was generations of poor farming practices causing land degradation and water pollution.

11-25-2014, 02:17 AM	#2
Green-Neck Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Fryers Forest Australia	Re: Farming and prehistory An interesting read, thanks. __________________ A fine blend of hillbilly and permaculturist.

11-25-2014, 05:45 AM	#3
thrash Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: traveller	Re: Farming and prehistory Living in the American Southwest, I'm immediately struck by how much the image of Çatalhöyük resembles ancient and modern pueblo sites, particularly Chaco Canyon. Those, too, were abruptly abandoned, probably due to overfarming, though after only a couple of centuries -- perhaps the climate was more marginal here. I find the proposal that a conflict of belief systems led to the collapse of these megavillages unconvincing as it stands. They had endured at their greatest extent for far longer than the half-life of ideas in most human transitions (about five generations). Even if it does explain the collapse, the proposal just raises other questions in its place: how did the system endure for so long? what changed? Also, there is research to show that the transition from tribal societies to hierarchical states has occured at a higher population threshold (around 20,000, if I recall correctly) in other parts of the world, even in the absence of agriculture per se. It doesn't seem surprising to find that the resurrected cities of late pre-history might have a different population base, and thus cross the threshold when Çatalhöyük and its like did not.

11-25-2014, 07:32 AM	#4
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: Farming and prehistory Cultural schisms destroyed it? I would put my money on climate fluctuations forcing a crash in population. Stone age people weren't living with a huge safety margin. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.