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Old 08-19-2018, 09:40 AM   #1
whswhs
 
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Default speaking like a native

Here's something I was puzzling over, while reviewing character sheets for my current campaign: One of the PCs, Hanno, has Linguistics-17. This gives him Mimicry (Speech)-13, which is pretty good. Per the RAW, he can reproduce the sound of a language.

Suppose that he knows a language's spoken form at Accented. If he can roll vs. Linguistics-4, and succeed, he can reproduce the sound of the language. Should this equate to speaking it as if he were Native?

We don't have rules for dialects, really, but if he encounters someone who speaks with a different accent, can he emulate that accent, and thus speak that dialect "like a native"?

In effect, this would make a really high score in Linguistics (Hanno paid 4 points for skill and 140 points for IQ!) a partial equivalent of Language Talent. Does that seem balanced?
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:39 PM   #2
johndallman
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Default Re: speaking like a native

I'd say he can, but he does have to keep rolling Mimicry (Speech), and he may respond noticeably slowly in rapid conversations. There's also a risk that he may use non-native idioms or expressions.

Last edited by johndallman; 08-20-2018 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Correct and improve.
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: speaking like a native

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I'd say he can, but he does have to keep rolling Mimicry (Speech), and he may respond noticeably slowly in rapid conversations. There's also a risk that he may use non-native idioms or expressions.
I'm wondering about that slow response. If I speak, say, fluent Moroccan Arabic, but more slowly than any native would speak it, does that in itself count as "acccented," even if my pronunciation is flawless? That is, does successful mimicry imply normal speed? Certainly if I'm trying to mimic a particular person, and I buy off part of the -3 penalty by speaking half or one-fourth as fast as they speak, I'm not going to sound like them.

I agree that multiple rolls are required—but how often? Would you let someone get away with one roll per conversation? Would you require one roll per utterance?
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: speaking like a native

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I'm wondering about that slow response. If I speak, say, fluent Moroccan Arabic, but more slowly than any native would speak it, does that in itself count as "acccented," even if my pronunciation is flawless?
'Accented' isn't just about accent. It's also about word usage, expressions, idioms, colloquialisms, tenses and conjugations, etc.

I'd say to a non-Native speaker he'd probably sound Native. He'd still have the social skill penalties. To a Native speaker he'd sound Native, but they'd find something odd about his speech over time.


Probably a bit more odd than the differences in regional variation (like soda vs pop vs coke when asking for a carbonated beverage).
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: speaking like a native

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Would you let someone get away with one roll per conversation? Would you require one roll per utterance?
Not per utterance, but per significant statement. The "uh-huh," "yes," and similar utterances that are part of handshaking in a conversation can come for free.
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: speaking like a native

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That is, does successful mimicry imply normal speed?
I think it must. I read a paper recently on the rate of speaking of various languages. The conclusion was that ideas are presented at essentially the same rate regardless of language. Languages with more complex grammar and morphology (more phonemes per meme, as it were) are necessarily spoken at a faster rate to keep up.

I agree that your linguist could mimic the phonetic structure of a language perfectly but still get tripped up on semantics (word choices and idioms). On the other hand, for a language with which he is familiar, he should know where the pitfalls lie and have some change of avoiding them.

Essentially, when mimicking your linguist speaks at a Native level -- until he blows his roll and says something completely odd, at a Broken level.
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: speaking like a native

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
'Accented' isn't just about accent. It's also about word usage, expressions, idioms, colloquialisms, tenses and conjugations, etc.

I'd say to a non-Native speaker he'd probably sound Native. He'd still have the social skill penalties. To a Native speaker he'd sound Native, but they'd find something odd about his speech over time.
This. What I'm thinking this would sound like would be American characters on low-budget British TV shows. Their accents are usually fine, but their choice of words, while grammatical, gets distinctly odd to the ear of a truly native speaker.
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: speaking like a native

Explorers sometimes just disguised themselves as someone who could be looked on as foreign-but-not-to-foreign. A common gambit for instance was as a pilgrim in Islamic countries, which explained the odd accent well enough.
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Old 08-20-2018, 09:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: speaking like a native

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
This. What I'm thinking this would sound like would be American characters on low-budget British TV shows. Their accents are usually fine, but their choice of words, while grammatical, gets distinctly odd to the ear of a truly native speaker.
The other variation is having a flawless regional accent at a native speed, but not having the vocabulary for well-known-but-rarely-used words, such as "corridor". This would call for some Acting rolls to disguise the lack of vocabulary.
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: speaking like a native

I'm not a linguist but I spent some of my formative years overseas and then joined a group that sang in many many different languages in college. I speak English and studied both Spanish and Russian without ever even getting to what I would call Accented fluency by GURPS terms... and nonetheless have had native speakers of both those languages try to engage me as a native speaker.

It never took long for them to figure out that I had a great accent and bad vocabulary. But I could easily fool people who had Broken or worse that I was native.

Based on my experience I would say that high Linguistics plus Accented would last for a few minutes before the Native speaker would realize that there were big gaps in culture and language, but they could pass as a native speaker to non natives pretty easily.
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