Clerics made simple

[zot]

I thought I'd summarize my position, since you guys are kind of doing that as well :).

I think the "reskinned spell caster as priest" is definitely a valid approach. And it doesn't require any new rules, which is a plus. That said, I don't like how ITL leaves Priest and Theologian at, "If the GM is giving Priests any special abilities or bonuses, a Theologian should get about twice as much".

If the GM is going to give priests and theologians special abilities, they should be carefully thought out and play tested. Which is why I made a toolkit so people who want priests with special abilities at least have the option to use my toolkit -- and they can skin them however they want, real world religion-y or not. Also, TFT's magic system just doesn't feel at all to me like what priests/shamans/cultists do in stories, which is why I went with a ceremonial magic system.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by zot

[...] I don't like how ITL leaves Priest and Theologian at, "If the GM is giving Priests any special abilities or bonuses, a Theologian should get about twice as much".

I like that it implies that many GMs may give zero abilities or bonuses.

I sort of don't like that it might seem to some to more than just suggest that if they do get bonuses, they should be about double, and that there should be some standard implementation of religious abilities and bonuses where Priest gets you X of them and Theologian gets you twice X. But if the words "for instance ... might" were there (as I imagine was the intent), I wouldn't mind it.


That is, I quite agree with you that:

Originally Posted by zot

If the GM is going to give priests and theologians special abilities, they should be carefully thought out and play tested.

[revshafer]

I like the fact that it is left to the GMs. It’s like all those evocative monster ecology articles that led to a thousand “You’re having fun wrong!” arguments. People can decide for themselves.

[Shoug]

The way I implement religion is by awarding a special kind of XP to devout characters for making right and godly choices especially when they're difficult. The special XP can only be used on lesser wishes. I feel like this makes sense and is easily balanced, and gives thaumaturgic characters some corporeal power that they can actually heft in the hand instead of simply "I hope my god is helping me."

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Exactly; what if you want your priest of Thor to be able to throw lightning bolts as a manifestation of the god's power? In TFT this is trivially easy to write up, whereas in most other games with nominally more developed systems of religious magic you might struggle to find just the right class, or it would come with a bunch of baggage that you didn't intend for your character.

It's no more difficult in 'other game'(s) than it is in TFT. I'll assume you are actually speaking of D&D here considering your class references. Even Deities and Demigods made some allowances for followers of different gods to break the class rules and that's been hardcoded into the game since 2nd edition (even Immortals did it in BECMI). So no, that's really a strawman argument.

What's not trivially easy in TFT is writing up a follower of a healing god....Physicker ain't laying on hands!

TFT has its own baggage...for example if you think divine magic shouldn't be hampered by metal, your are out of luck. If you think it should involve sacrifice rather than st drain (say RQ style) you are out of luck. TFT is no better at modeling this stuff outside of its own preconceptions than any other ruleset is.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

TFT has its own baggage...for example if you think divine magic shouldn't be hampered by metal, your are out of luck. If you think it should involve sacrifice rather than st drain (say RQ style) you are out of luck. TFT is no better at modeling this stuff outside of its own preconceptions than any other ruleset is.

You're only out of luck if you feel the need for a published rule. Otherwise people can make up whatever they want.


e.g. Bob's House Rules:

* Divine magic doesn't have a cold iron penalty.

* Divine magic involves sacrifice - half the ST of the sacrificed beings is available for spellcasting for 3 turns after the beings are sacrificed.

[zot]

Originally Posted by Skarg

You're only out of luck if you feel the need for a published rule. Otherwise people can make up whatever they want.


e.g. Bob's House Rules:

* Divine magic doesn't have a cold iron penalty.

* Divine magic involves sacrifice - half the ST of the sacrificed beings is available for spellcasting for 3 turns after the beings are sacrificed.

Personally I'd make the ST available for the rest of the day and put a cap on how much you can store, using the mana staff as a model. That way evil priests could pose a credible threat to the PCs. Otherwise evil priests are kinda wimpy.

Also, you could argue that lifeblood is stronger than fatigue so maybe a sacrifice's ST should be worth double instead of half.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by zot

Personally I'd make the ST available for the rest of the day and put a cap on how much you can store, using the mana staff as a model. That way evil priests could pose a credible threat to the PCs. Otherwise evil priests are kinda wimpy.

Also, you could argue that lifeblood is stronger than fatigue so maybe a sacrifice's ST should be worth double instead of half.

I was just posting an example from the perspective that "it's easy to house rule" as a counterpoint to "["Bob" is] out of luck".

As for the above, I'd say it depends entirely on what other spells are available to use the ST on, what they have to sacrifice, etc.

[zot]

Originally Posted by Skarg

I was just posting an example from the perspective that "it's easy to house rule" as a counterpoint to "["Bob" is] out of luck".

As for the above, I'd say it depends entirely on what other spells are available to use the ST on, what they have to sacrifice, etc.

Couldn't resist -- I've been thinking about sacrifice and magic lately :)

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by Skarg

You're only out of luck if you feel the need for a published rule. Otherwise people can make up whatever they want.

Yeah, I'm aware. My point was the comment above complaining that other systems couldn't similarly be handled (or that they in-fact have been handling it for decades).