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Old 06-04-2019, 11:25 PM   #1
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2
 
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Default What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

In many DnD-esque worlds, there are "races" like Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, etc. each one is assumed to have some racially-pure homeland and unique culture. This affects every aspect of worldbuilding such realities.

So let us remove that assumption ... What if these "races" didn't breed true?

Assume that there are ... let's say seven "races" in a fantasy world. But they are not "Races" - we'll call them "types" for now.

Any couple of the same Type has a 25% chance of producing offspring of the same Type as themselves, but a 75% chance of producing offspring of any one of the other six Types.

Any couple of two different Types has a 25% chance of producing a child of the same Type as one of the parents, and a 75% chance of producing offspring of any one of the other Types.

In this circumstance, Types lose the distinctions that make fantasy races. A large enough family can have all Types. A pair of Fraternal Twins could be an Elf and an Orc.

The concept of "Race" would have no biological component. Instead the definition of "Race" would be entirely cultural, much like people sometimes speak of "the German Race" or "the French Race". There would be no "Dwarf Nation" or "Elf culture" because there is no way to guarantee the next generation will have the same Type.

How would this affect the design of a typical fantasy milieu?
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

Two parents of the same type have only a 25% chance of breeding true? That's some... interesting genetics there. :)

It could, however, be intriguing to have a fantasy realm where the "races" are indeed merely ethnicities, in a fashion similar to human variations only much, much more so. You wouldn't get an elf from two orcs, or an orc and a dwarf (unless there was enough elf ancestry on both sides for the gene complex to dominate), but easy intermixing of the "races" could give some fascinating sociological results.
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

If we still have distinct elfs and orcs in the same family instead of half- and quarter- etc it can't really be explained by genetics. It would have to be magic/divine intervention.

As for the result, there would be cultures based on location. Types would be ignored in social situations (unless some types would all have some stereotypical traits, e.g. orcs being thugish).
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

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Originally Posted by Bengt View Post
If we still have distinct elfs and orcs in the same family instead of half- and quarter- etc it can't really be explained by genetics. It would have to be magic/divine intervention.
WHAT?!! Magic or divine intervention in a fantasy world?? INCONCEIVABLE!!

That's one of the reasons we play these worlds. As long as it's internally consistent, there's no problem.

Quote:
As for the result, there would be cultures based on location. Types would be ignored in social situations (unless some types would all have some stereotypical traits, e.g. orcs being thugish).
In reality, there are stereotypes based on gender and other traits, even hair color.

So it would be workable.
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

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Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
WHAT?!! Magic or divine intervention in a fantasy world?? INCONCEIVABLE!!

That's one of the reasons we play these worlds. As long as it's internally consistent, there's no problem.
I didn't mean to say you shouldn't do it, just that I think explaining it with magic rather than genetics would be better.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

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Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
WHAT?!! Magic or divine intervention in a fantasy world?? INCONCEIVABLE!!

That's one of the reasons we play these worlds. As long as it's internally consistent, there's no problem.
But this idea abandons the idea of consistency entirely. Stuff just happens.
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
But this idea abandons the idea of consistency entirely. Stuff just happens.
At which point, it becomes a question of "Do Wizards exist in this specific setting?"

Any setting with "The science of magic" types running around is a setting whose magical framework is internally consistent. It has to be; otherwise, the idea that "This specific magic formulae produces this specific magic effect" couldn't exist.
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

To have any type able to give birth to any other type, either everyone needs genetics for all of the types and something activates or deactivates specific combinations (you only need three on/off controls to generate 8 types; to get it down to seven types you might make one combination lethal).

For example, you might have:
Zero activated genes: baseline mundane.
One activated gene: one of three slightly exotic races.
Two activated genes: one of three highly exotic races.
Three activated genes: dead (or other problem).

Now, for inheritance, I would probably make the increased odds of the same race be strictly maternal, because if the trigger is environmental the father is remote enough that you probably don't get a meaningful contribution, and it also makes my math a bit easier.

Okay, if inheritance is entirely random, we'd expect a 12.5% chance of matching the parent (but one type is excluded, so overall 14%). If activation is instead a 60% match on the mother, we get a basic 21.6% chance of being the same, but a 6.4-14.4% chance of the excluded combination, for a net among survivors of a hair under 24%.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:06 AM   #9
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Default Re: What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
In many DnD-esque worlds, there are "races" like Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, etc. each one is assumed to have some racially-pure homeland and unique culture. This affects every aspect of worldbuilding such realities.

So let us remove that assumption ... What if these "races" didn't breed true?

Assume that there are ... let's say seven "races" in a fantasy world. But they are not "Races" - we'll call them "types" for now.

Any couple of the same Type has a 25% chance of producing offspring of the same Type as themselves, but a 75% chance of producing offspring of any one of the other six Types.

Any couple of two different Types has a 25% chance of producing a child of the same Type as one of the parents, and a 75% chance of producing offspring of any one of the other Types.

In this circumstance, Types lose the distinctions that make fantasy races. A large enough family can have all Types. A pair of Fraternal Twins could be an Elf and an Orc.

The concept of "Race" would have no biological component. Instead the definition of "Race" would be entirely cultural, much like people sometimes speak of "the German Race" or "the French Race". There would be no "Dwarf Nation" or "Elf culture" because there is no way to guarantee the next generation will have the same Type.

How would this affect the design of a typical fantasy milieu?
It would be the same as an all-human campaign. Some of them would just have pointy ears, or be short, or rugose.
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Old 06-05-2019, 11:22 AM   #10
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Default Re: What if Fantasy Races weren't "Races"?

What we call a "race" among humans (when it doesn't just mean ethnicity as in "the English race") is a genetic strain if it means anything and "race" is basically a synonym for that among humans. "Racism" is either a synonym for ethnic bigotry, or a synonym for "racialism" that is pseudoscientific formalizing of genetic strains to justify ethnic bigotry. The acknowledgement of genetic strains as such among humans is just biology (you don't pair two Appaloosas in the real world and randomly get an Arabian). In most fantasy worlds there seems to be something of the kind intended by "race" although often to a far greater extreme (there are only three known pairings of men and elves in the Tolkien verse). A man and an elf are not genetically separate like a man and a woman from opposite sides of the globe, but more like a horse and a donkey except an elf in Tolkien has preternatural patterns in his or her genes (or whatever) that add complication.

If you wish to put your system into a fantasy world you are upending tradition enough that you have to put a backstory in.
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