Is It Just ME..??? LONG RANT

~~Jim Kane~~ · 05-09-2018, 05:00 AM

Is it just me, or does it go right up anyone else's Bee's Nest when some self-described "TFT-expert" comes out with a YouTube review and can only seem to describe why TFT is unique and special by repeatedly describing the game as "very simple" and "not very detailed"?... and then proceeds to mis-name the TFT attributes using the terms: "INT" for IQ, and "Skills" for Talents.

D'OH!!

And then goes on with verbiage littered with AD&D jargon(?).

Oh boy.

While it is true that we have a 3 Attribute System as the core, saying TFT is: "a simple game and not the most detailed", is like saying because it only has 6 different pieces... "You see, I am an life-long expert in Chest [sic]... it is a simple game and not very detailed, and uses pieces called: the horsey, the little castle, and the tiny bowling pins..."

I guess by that "X-purt" reasoning, the Japanese game of: GO is even simpler - Heck, it only has 1 type of playing-piece.

We have some incredibly bright, articulate, and knowledgeable people on this board, bashing their brains out (and sometimes each others) in trying to unlock the keys-of-perfection to this "simple and not very detailed game". I read with great interest and recognize all the hard work and deep thought everyone puts into making this great thing better - and even in cases where I wholly disagree with a fellow member - I have to acknowledge, and cannot deny, the stellar level of life-long TFT Expertise and Knowledge (not "claimed knowledge" backed with blatant misnomers and D&D-speak running amok) that we share with each other here on the forum.

So when a complete charlatan promotes himself on YouTube while claiming to be a life-long TFT'er who "doubts there is anyone out there who has played the game more", yet doesn't even know the game terms and basic structure by evidence of his own testimony, I find this a slap in the face to each and every one of us, and all the work and time we share here.

The other thing I find so highly insulting is this idea that TFT has now suddenly been deemed - in the opinion of this self-proclaimed TFT X-purt - is what we used to call a: "Knee-jerk, Beer and Pretzels game".

Back in the Metagaming and TSG days of the early 80s, a lot of fast-playing, one-shot games were designed with this "Knee-Jerk, Beer and Pretzels" format purposefully.

TFT is NOT one of those games. Sure, you COULD play it that way, if you wanted, but to listening to this flippant and erroneous lumping-in classification is beyond insulting.

When I listen to this guy, I must be feeling the same thing a 4 Tour combat veteran feels when some poser is claiming that mantle, and you find out his uniform and medals came not from time served in-grade and in-action, but were purchased from the local pawn shop, and he once saw a John Wayne war movie... or was it an Audie Murphy movie?

Hmm, I don't know, I can't seem keep the terms straight either.

I also love the tell-tale "eyes down", MAKE THE STATEMENT, then followed by the "eye blink" and "eye shift left", immediately after he utters the phrase: "That is why I have made it my go-to game since the 1980s". See 1:13 - 1:18 on the timeline - LOL!! Classic! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edJJEGtJRrE&t=332s Show that to your local Police Detective or Deposing Attorney and ask them if they think the man is making a truthful statement or not. ;-)

And for added laughs, show them the STATEMENT at 3:47-3:57. Here he even ups the ante' with the "negative" head-shake while making the "affirmative" statement.

Too much LOL!

Then - as my antenna is up - I have to wonder if the tattered and battered TFT books - strategically placed in the background over his shoulder for subliminal "authenticity" - were rescued from a moldy box left untouched by human hands in the basement for 37 years, or were they purchased on eBay just before the filming of this "review".

Lastly, and yet another classic: "I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about" tell-tale: "He reprinted the game (TFT) and modified it so it was non-copyright infringement and called it GURPS."

Do I even need to expound on that one?

One of the very first statements SJ made REPEATEDLY was: "GURPS IS NOT TFT ALL OVER AGAIN."

Anyone who is an "X-purt" in TFT and has even toyed with MtM/GURPS knows these two game designs are WORLDS APART from each other in design, form, and end-user experience.

What this tells me is that this guy (again) has NO CLUE about what TFT really is.
While ANY exposure is good exposure, what is the point of him making this "review"?

What the heck is his motivation to talk-up a product he obviously has limited and faulty knowledge of? And why is he backing up his endorsement with all this "I have played this game continuously since 1980, but i don't know the format and basic terms" - with the eyes darting and shifting all over the place while he does so?

Bizarre.

All I get from watching this guy is insulted, and mystified as to his end-goal in making this video.

Anyone?

JK

Kirk · 05-09-2018, 12:27 PM

I don't like to get into it on the interwebs with most people because it usually shifts from discussing an *idea* to personal attacks, but I will say that I felt very much the same about this gentlemen.

I was willing to ignore his "close but no cigar" knowledge of the system (maybe it's just the way he talks or views the game, his lens, basically) but when he hit the part about a 50 level character I knew we were in somewhat sketchy territory.

TFT, as players should know, doesn't really have LEVELS, that is part of what makes it great. Points are not levels. At that point I half expected him to pull out a bag of 8 sided dice to show us what he uses to play the game! ;)

And in my short time at SJG I remember SJ putting it out to staff and employees about what to call this new system he was designing and had designated as a stub title The Great Unknown Role Playing System while under development. At some point, I guess because no one could come up with anything he liked, he settled on keeping the acronym and just modifying the meaning to Generic Universal Role Playing System.

George Dew and I had the same issue with Dark City Game modules and providing a TFTish basic rule set without wanting to worry about treading on TFT, and so came up with what came with the early programmed modules that allowed TFT style play. Almost assuredly SJ would have rather had TFT than have to fudge it with GURPS, but you work with what you have, and that's what he did.

Maybe real grognards should make a more true to form TFT video for the masses, but my guess is that most of us aren't easy on the eyes, if we ever were, in our 60s. I know I probably wouldn't want to see myself in any videos these days! ;)

JLV · 05-09-2018, 01:19 PM

Oh, THAT guy.

Yeah, I watched that video a while back and then realized that I wouldn't ever take that guy's word on anything in the future either. Fortunately, I usually go to other sources for more...ah..."authoritative" reviews of games before I buy them. He, on the other hand, kind of comes across as a used-car salesman for some reason (perhaps it's the shifty body language you noted, Jim).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk

Maybe real grognards should make a more true to form TFT video for the masses, but my guess is that most of us aren't easy on the eyes, if we ever were, in our 60s. I know I probably wouldn't want to see myself in any videos these days! ;)

Given that I retired 70 pounds ago, I'll ask to be excused as the "face man" for that particular project! ;-)

tbeard1999 · 05-09-2018, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLV

Oh, THAT guy.

Yeah, I watched that video a while back and then realized that I wouldn't ever take that guy's word on anything in the future either. Fortunately, I usually go to other sources for more...ah..."authoritative" reviews of games before I buy them. He, on the other hand, kind of comes across as a used-car salesman for some reason (perhaps it's the shifty body language you noted, Jim).

Given that I retired 70 pounds ago, I'll ask to be excused as the "face man" for that particular project! ;-)

Perhaps we should *politely* point out that his terminology isn't used in TFT and that he may be remembering another system (or mis-remembering TFT). It has been almost 40 years since Muggles got to play TFT...

~~Jim Kane~~ · 05-09-2018, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Perhaps we should *politely* point out that his terminology isn't used in TFT and that he may be remembering another system (or mis-remembering TFT). It has been almost 40 years since Muggles got to play TFT...

No, no point.

I wouldn't want to encourage anything where he might decide to make a series of follow-ups on TFT Classics like: DEATH RACE, TOLKIEN'S LIAR, INSECURITY CHANGING STATION, QUEST FOR THE UNIFORMED GNOME, etc.

Thanks for the responses guys, I was really beginning to wonder if it was just me.

JK

Skarg · 05-09-2018, 07:55 PM

It's not just you... I too find it frustrating to listen to people talking about a game I love with an air of knowledge and authority but also seeming to leave out things that I love about the game, and/or not liking it as much as I do in comparison to other games.

On the other hand, it is often really interesting and sometimes surprising to me to see the differences in different people's experiences of the same games.

I wouldn't tend to use his word "simple" when comparing it to other systems, or say that getting "out of the way of doing cooperating storytelling [was] what made it good". Some of the things that stand out to me about TFT in comparison to others are that all the rules try to represent something real in a way that makes sense and is consistent, and that it provides a very rich mapped tactical combat game about the specific circumstances that's absent in most other RPGs.

tbeard1999 · 05-09-2018, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

No, no point.

I wouldn't want to encourage anything where he might decide to make a series of follow-ups on TFT Classics like: DEATH RACE, TOLKIEN'S LIAR, INSECURITY CHANGING STATION, QUEST FOR THE UNIFORMED GNOME, etc.

Thanks for the responses guys, I was really beginning to wonder if it was just me.

JK

Nah, it isn’t you. Listening to someone mis-describe something I know well is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Kirk · 05-09-2018, 08:32 PM

It finally popped into my frontal lobe who I was reminded of when watching this man's video, no insult intended, just my connective reaction...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfh-YY465HA

~~Jim Kane~~ · 05-09-2018, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk

It finally popped into my frontal lobe who I was reminded of when watching this man's video, no insult intended, just my connective reaction...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfh-YY465HA

LOL!!!! Nailed it.

Thanks guys, I feel a lot better knowing we all had the same basic bad reaction to this guy butchering our baby.

JK

Chris Rice · 05-10-2018, 03:12 AM

Wow!! When I read this rant I couldn't wait to watch it; the guy must be a complete fool! Then I did and realised I'd seen it months ago and thought it was an ok "heads up" type of video for those who've never heard of TFT before. It's not meant to be an in depth look at the game and is not intended for TFT grognards like us. So why the hate? The guy has 2,600 subscribers to his channel, and whilst that doesn't make him a YouTube powerhouse, it's another useful chunk of gamers who might never have heard of TFT but may now be interested in checking out a reboot. Lighten up a bit guys. Or maybe make your own video for us to pick apart 😂😂😂

05-09-2018, 05:00 AM	#1
~~Jim Kane~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2018	Is It Just ME..??? LONG RANT Is it just me, or does it go right up anyone else's Bee's Nest when some self-described "TFT-expert" comes out with a YouTube review and can only seem to describe why TFT is unique and special by repeatedly describing the game as "very simple" and "not very detailed"?... and then proceeds to mis-name the TFT attributes using the terms: "INT" for IQ, and "Skills" for Talents. D'OH!! And then goes on with verbiage littered with AD&D jargon(?). Oh boy. While it is true that we have a 3 Attribute System as the core, saying TFT is: "a simple game and not the most detailed", is like saying because it only has 6 different pieces... "You see, I am an life-long expert in Chest [sic]... it is a simple game and not very detailed, and uses pieces called: the horsey, the little castle, and the tiny bowling pins..." I guess by that "X-purt" reasoning, the Japanese game of: GO is even simpler - Heck, it only has 1 type of playing-piece. We have some incredibly bright, articulate, and knowledgeable people on this board, bashing their brains out (and sometimes each others) in trying to unlock the keys-of-perfection to this "simple and not very detailed game". I read with great interest and recognize all the hard work and deep thought everyone puts into making this great thing better - and even in cases where I wholly disagree with a fellow member - I have to acknowledge, and cannot deny, the stellar level of life-long TFT Expertise and Knowledge (not "claimed knowledge" backed with blatant misnomers and D&D-speak running amok) that we share with each other here on the forum. So when a complete charlatan promotes himself on YouTube while claiming to be a life-long TFT'er who "doubts there is anyone out there who has played the game more", yet doesn't even know the game terms and basic structure by evidence of his own testimony, I find this a slap in the face to each and every one of us, and all the work and time we share here. The other thing I find so highly insulting is this idea that TFT has now suddenly been deemed - in the opinion of this self-proclaimed TFT X-purt - is what we used to call a: "Knee-jerk, Beer and Pretzels game". Back in the Metagaming and TSG days of the early 80s, a lot of fast-playing, one-shot games were designed with this "Knee-Jerk, Beer and Pretzels" format purposefully. TFT is NOT one of those games. Sure, you COULD play it that way, if you wanted, but to listening to this flippant and erroneous lumping-in classification is beyond insulting. When I listen to this guy, I must be feeling the same thing a 4 Tour combat veteran feels when some poser is claiming that mantle, and you find out his uniform and medals came not from time served in-grade and in-action, but were purchased from the local pawn shop, and he once saw a John Wayne war movie... or was it an Audie Murphy movie? Hmm, I don't know, I can't seem keep the terms straight either. I also love the tell-tale "eyes down", MAKE THE STATEMENT, then followed by the "eye blink" and "eye shift left", immediately after he utters the phrase: "That is why I have made it my go-to game since the 1980s". See 1:13 - 1:18 on the timeline - LOL!! Classic! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edJJEGtJRrE&t=332s Show that to your local Police Detective or Deposing Attorney and ask them if they think the man is making a truthful statement or not. ;-) And for added laughs, show them the STATEMENT at 3:47-3:57. Here he even ups the ante' with the "negative" head-shake while making the "affirmative" statement. Too much LOL! Then - as my antenna is up - I have to wonder if the tattered and battered TFT books - strategically placed in the background over his shoulder for subliminal "authenticity" - were rescued from a moldy box left untouched by human hands in the basement for 37 years, or were they purchased on eBay just before the filming of this "review". Lastly, and yet another classic: "I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about" tell-tale: "He reprinted the game (TFT) and modified it so it was non-copyright infringement and called it GURPS." Do I even need to expound on that one? One of the very first statements SJ made REPEATEDLY was: "GURPS IS NOT TFT ALL OVER AGAIN." Anyone who is an "X-purt" in TFT and has even toyed with MtM/GURPS knows these two game designs are WORLDS APART from each other in design, form, and end-user experience. What this tells me is that this guy (again) has NO CLUE about what TFT really is. While ANY exposure is good exposure, what is the point of him making this "review"? What the heck is his motivation to talk-up a product he obviously has limited and faulty knowledge of? And why is he backing up his endorsement with all this "I have played this game continuously since 1980, but i don't know the format and basic terms" - with the eyes darting and shifting all over the place while he does so? Bizarre. All I get from watching this guy is insulted, and mystified as to his end-goal in making this video. Anyone? JK Last edited by Jim Kane; 05-13-2018 at 04:03 AM. Reason: Typo

05-09-2018, 12:27 PM	#2
Kirk Join Date: Feb 2018	Re: Is It Just ME..??? LONG RANT I don't like to get into it on the interwebs with most people because it usually shifts from discussing an idea to personal attacks, but I will say that I felt very much the same about this gentlemen. I was willing to ignore his "close but no cigar" knowledge of the system (maybe it's just the way he talks or views the game, his lens, basically) but when he hit the part about a 50 level character I knew we were in somewhat sketchy territory. TFT, as players should know, doesn't really have LEVELS, that is part of what makes it great. Points are not levels. At that point I half expected him to pull out a bag of 8 sided dice to show us what he uses to play the game! ;) And in my short time at SJG I remember SJ putting it out to staff and employees about what to call this new system he was designing and had designated as a stub title The Great Unknown Role Playing System while under development. At some point, I guess because no one could come up with anything he liked, he settled on keeping the acronym and just modifying the meaning to Generic Universal Role Playing System. George Dew and I had the same issue with Dark City Game modules and providing a TFTish basic rule set without wanting to worry about treading on TFT, and so came up with what came with the early programmed modules that allowed TFT style play. Almost assuredly SJ would have rather had TFT than have to fudge it with GURPS, but you work with what you have, and that's what he did. Maybe real grognards should make a more true to form TFT video for the masses, but my guess is that most of us aren't easy on the eyes, if we ever were, in our 60s. I know I probably wouldn't want to see myself in any videos these days! ;) Last edited by Andrew Hackard; 05-09-2018 at 12:35 PM. Reason: deleted long quote - please only quote the parts you are directly replying to, and only if necessary for context

05-09-2018, 07:55 PM	#6
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Is It Just ME..??? LONG RANT It's not just you... I too find it frustrating to listen to people talking about a game I love with an air of knowledge and authority but also seeming to leave out things that I love about the game, and/or not liking it as much as I do in comparison to other games. On the other hand, it is often really interesting and sometimes surprising to me to see the differences in different people's experiences of the same games. I wouldn't tend to use his word "simple" when comparing it to other systems, or say that getting "out of the way of doing cooperating storytelling [was] what made it good". Some of the things that stand out to me about TFT in comparison to others are that all the rules try to represent something real in a way that makes sense and is consistent, and that it provides a very rich mapped tactical combat game about the specific circumstances that's absent in most other RPGs.

05-09-2018, 08:32 PM	#8
Kirk Join Date: Feb 2018	Re: Is It Just ME..??? LONG RANT It finally popped into my frontal lobe who I was reminded of when watching this man's video, no insult intended, just my connective reaction... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfh-YY465HA

05-10-2018, 03:12 AM	#10
Chris Rice Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland	Re: Is It Just ME..??? LONG RANT Wow!! When I read this rant I couldn't wait to watch it; the guy must be a complete fool! Then I did and realised I'd seen it months ago and thought it was an ok "heads up" type of video for those who've never heard of TFT before. It's not meant to be an in depth look at the game and is not intended for TFT grognards like us. So why the hate? The guy has 2,600 subscribers to his channel, and whilst that doesn't make him a YouTube powerhouse, it's another useful chunk of gamers who might never have heard of TFT but may now be interested in checking out a reboot. Lighten up a bit guys. Or maybe make your own video for us to pick apart 😂😂😂