Random weapon observation ([DF] I suppose)

[Ronin Rabbit]

So I'm running this AD&D/GURPS [DF] campaign for a little bit now, everything's okay and one player lends me the 2nd edition Arms & Equipment book (we only use 1st & 2nd edition resources for AD&D, no 3e and no 4e)

this is great, because if you remember AD&D 2e, the PHB doesn't give you descriptions of what a lot of the weapons are. But in it I found some things that were kind of interesting. Especially in light of recently picking up GURPS 4e Low Tech & MA.

The biggest one I caught was "broadsword"- what we call a Broadsword in GURPS is actually the "Longsword" in AD&D, their broadsword is actually closer to either the backsword in GURPS. GURPS LT has a "Longsword" in it, but I believe that's actually a historical version of a German weapon (? not sure ?), and not meant to be any kind of analogue.

The other one I thought was really interesting was Battleaxe- which according to this DMGR is a one handed axe with a really long handle. That doesn't seem like the standard GURPS axe to me, and even the weight is slightly different (7 lbs, although the AD&D weights are often... not right)



I still intent to use the standard GURPS weapons from LT & MA, but I just found this kind of interesting.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Ronin Rabbit

I still intent to use the standard GURPS weapons from LT & MA, but I just found this kind of interesting.

It's not surprising that you're finding different names for similar weapons. Historically, there was no standardization, so different sources can use different names for what a modern writer may classify as the same item, or even use the same name for different items. Moreover, the classificatory needs of a modern writer may not match those of an historical one. And apparently a lot of nonsense crept into the scholarship during the Victorian era to picked up and repeated by gamers to become RPG fixtures. So any modern person who composes a list of weapons is pretty much naturally going to disagree with any other list.

[arnej]

Originally Posted by Ronin Rabbit

this is great, because if you remember AD&D 2e, the PHB doesn't give you descriptions of what a lot of the weapons are.

I learned the importance of describing weapons waaayyy back when we invited a friend to join a game. She had no RPG experience, so we made her a character - a Dwarf. Since dwarves are good with axes and maces, we put "Mace" on the character sheet and got down to playing.

Things were going well, and then we got to our first combat. Her turn came up, an opponent ready to be smote, and she said:

"I spray him with my mace!"

So, yea, descriptions/pictures are important.

arnej

[gilbertocarlos]

Originally Posted by arnej

"I spray him with my mace!"

In portuguese we speak mace as "maça", same pronunciation as "massa", that is "pasta", so, you can see a huge problem right here.

[DanHoward]

Historically a "long sword" was any sword that was longer than your side sword. If your arming weapon was only 2 feet long then your "longsword" could be a GURPS broadsword.

[gruundehn]

Oh I am reminded of a cartoon I saw in Dragon Magazine oh those many years ago. There was Cedric the Cleric talking to another character and the caption was: There I was, using a Lucern Hammer for five levels and then discovered it was a pole arm.
arnej, you have brought back some fond memories.

[Polydamas]

Good old Gygaxian editing (or lack thereof). I'm sure he knew which weapons he meant to be two-handed ... but its always been hard for players and GMs.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Good old Gygaxian editing (or lack thereof). I'm sure he knew which weapons he meant to be two-handed ... but its always been hard for players and GMs.

It also has the problem of not, in fact, being a blunt weapon, and thus not being permitted to clerics.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Ronin Rabbit

The biggest one I caught was "broadsword"- what we call a Broadsword in GURPS is actually the "Longsword" in AD&D, their broadsword is actually closer to either the backsword in GURPS.

The term broadsword only really caught on quite a while after the medieval period, to distinguish military swords from thinner blades typically carried by civilians (the rapier and smallsword). By that time, basket hilts were very common features on military swords.

One big problem is that a good portion of what "everybody knows" about the middle ages is what the Victorians made up to make themselves look more civilized by comparison (swords were just sword shaped bludgeoning weapons, torture was common and elaborate, everyone was uneducated and superstitious, etc.).