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Old 04-18-2021, 03:46 PM   #1
Lisandro
 
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Default Really High Skills as Magic

Does anyone uses really high skills and their increased critical possibility as a way to simulate "magic"?

Combined with wildcard skills that could be a better way to replicate some great effects without the need of Mana. A "mage" with high Diplomacy, Fast Talk and Intimidation could pass for a mind controller. High Animal Handling and Naturalist skills can give the impression of Nature Powers.

Do you think it can work?
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Old 04-18-2021, 04:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Really High Skills as Magic

I never used it but I liked the concept since I've ever seem the Talent as Magic section of Thaumatology.
I believe you could make it work by considering the more questionably realistic parts of the rule as magic. For example, Very Fine modifiers for weapons is no more mundane, but a magical property of a sword created by very talented/blessed smiths.
The Combat Medic power-up for Clerics sets a precedent for using skills in magic-like fashion. Fast-Talk used near-instantly could be a not!jedi mind trick, while Lockpicking could be not!alohomora.
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Old 04-18-2021, 04:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Really High Skills as Magic

I've definitely used Bang as Magic with the rules for Impulse Buys being 'MP'. It's a pseudo-subtle form of magic and is a lot of fun.

As for basic skills, I'm not sure it would really come across as 'magic' and it would undermine 'being skilled'. But another form of magic I love is 'Perks as Magic' where you take perks and mostly tool perks to let you do skills 'hands free' to simulate subtle magic.
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Old 04-18-2021, 05:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Really High Skills as Magic

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Originally Posted by Lisandro View Post
Does anyone uses really high skills and their increased critical possibility as a way to simulate "magic"?
This is basically how elf-magic works in Tolkien. A well-told story can make you feel as if you were there; a magically told story can actually conjure visions before you, as happens to Frodo in the Hall of Fire. A well-made rope will be strong; a magically made rope will be extraordinarily light and will come loose when needed, as Sam discovers in the Emyn Muil. A well-sung song will make you believe in the events sung of; a magically sung song can change reality itself. Elves simply (and literally) have super-human skill levels, so they can accomplish more with their skills than humans can. This is what humans define as magic.

To do this in GURPS, you'd have to define a maximum human level, and you'd need the right racial template to grant you higher skill levels. Then you'd have to decide exactly what super-human ability accomplishes for each skill.
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Old 04-18-2021, 05:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: Really High Skills as Magic

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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
This is basically how elf-magic works in Tolkien. A well-told story can make you feel as if you were there; a magically told story can actually conjure visions before you, as happens to Frodo in the Hall of Fire. A well-made rope will be strong; a magically made rope will be extraordinarily light and will come loose when needed, as Sam discovers in the Emyn Muil. A well-sung song will make you believe in the events sung of; a magically sung song can change reality itself. Elves simply (and literally) have super-human skill levels, so they can accomplish more with their skills than humans can. This is what humans define as magic.

To do this in GURPS, you'd have to define a maximum human level, and you'd need the right racial template to grant you higher skill levels. Then you'd have to decide exactly what super-human ability accomplishes for each skill.
One thought is that instead of being based on high skill, it's that you can take a skill to magical ends with a penalty; Telling a story at (say) -10 would conjure up the story visually. -10 might be a lot, but it's also 'impossible' and thus you're capable of doing the 'impossible' with enough skill.
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Old 04-18-2021, 06:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Really High Skills as Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisandro View Post
Does anyone uses really high skills and their increased critical possibility as a way to simulate "magic"?

Combined with wildcard skills that could be a better way to replicate some great effects without the need of Mana. A "mage" with high Diplomacy, Fast Talk and Intimidation could pass for a mind controller. High Animal Handling and Naturalist skills can give the impression of Nature Powers.

Do you think it can work?
What you're describing is essentially S. John Ross's "Hedge Magic." You can find it here: http://web.archive.org/web/200406280...john/hedge.htm

I think he put it in GURPS Russia (3E).
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Old 04-18-2021, 06:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: Really High Skills as Magic

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
One thought is that instead of being based on high skill, it's that you can take a skill to magical ends with a penalty; Telling a story at (say) -10 would conjure up the story visually. -10 might be a lot, but it's also 'impossible' and thus you're capable of doing the 'impossible' with enough skill.
That's exactly what I was getting at.
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Old 04-18-2021, 07:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: Really High Skills as Magic

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That's exactly what I was getting at.
Oh, nice. Yeah, I actually like the -10 a lot. If that doesn't seem limiting enough, Power Blow has it being an option only at 20+ skill, meaning it's not even a choice without heavy dedication into the skill (or crazy attributes).

I kind of like combining that with accessory perks, meaning at skill 20 you can do it hands-free and do it more magically at -10. Or maybe once you have skill 20 you can buy an appropriate perk that also gives you a -10 option.
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Old 04-18-2021, 08:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Really High Skills as Magic

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Power Blow has it being an option only at 20+ skill, meaning it's not even a choice without heavy dedication into the skill (or crazy attributes).
That's for combat purpose, Power Blow can be useful outside combat at lower skill levels. In fact, even in combat it can be useful in some situations (eg if the character can't beat enemy DR with a normal or all-out attack, concentrating for a turn or two to increase the damage output is worth it).

Last edited by Sorenant; 04-18-2021 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 04-18-2021, 08:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Really High Skills as Magic

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Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
What you're describing is essentially S. John Ross's "Hedge Magic." You can find it here: http://web.archive.org/web/200406280...john/hedge.htm

I think he put it in GURPS Russia (3E).
Based on the way it is written I think "Mysteries of the Trade" (Fantasy pg 162-3) is the 4e equivalent. The GURPSwiki gives this thumbnail:

"Various professions have a reputation for magical knowledge."[3] The easiest way to emulate this is with a variant Ritual Magic where a relevant mundane skill replaces the Ritual Magic or Thaumaturgy skill. A IQ/Very Hard (Profession) Magic skill replaces College but everything else is per the Ritual Magic system with Magery 0 (or Power Investiture) required to cast spells in low- or normal-mana regions.

So someone with Physician-16 would have Physician Magic-10 as their default and have Minor Healing-8.

Important Note: "In a high- or very-high-mana setting, any professional can cast any spell based on his profession, if only at default." make no mention of Magery requirements imply other then needing Magery 0 for low or normal area the magery requirement is waved.

This is very similar to S. John Ross' Hedge Magic but it involves understanding of the magic within mundane skills. But one example in the piece expressly uses the term "mage" meaning that Magery was effectively part of the Hedge Magic advantage.
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