Throwing range

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Well I wasn't thinking in terms of ever increasing ranges tied to ever reducing weights, in a strict linear relationship where one tends to infinity as the other tends to 0!

Just making the point that a lot of the table the lighter the weight the further the same ST throws it and because of the threshold nature of the table a small weight difference in weight can make big difference in effect depending on where you land on it (but as I said it irrelevant because the table tops out).

That would be one weird 'strict linear relationship'. And one weird strawman.

You suggested that the table shouldn't top out where it does. I contest that it probably more or less should, in terms of weight ratio. At least for GURPS-standard levels of anthropocentrism.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Or you just say, huh that table is based on thresholds and tops out in a weird place for some combinations of BL and object weight. At the same time saying aerodynamics is a thing that can vary by object, even if the table doesn't hard bake the variation in, and say yeah you know what chucking grenades 50 yards is reasonable. I know this because I have done it.

For me problem solved!

So your conclusion is that anyone using the RAW getting numbers you consider fundamentally wrong is 'problem solved'? If 50 meters is correct, you shouldn't have to have thrown a grenade that far personally to be able to tell that.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

That would be one weird 'strict linear relationship'. And one weird strawman.

You suggested that the table shouldn't top out where it does. I contest that it probably more or less should, in terms of weight ratio. At least for GURPS-standard levels of anthropocentrism.

So your conclusion is that anyone using the RAW getting numbers you consider fundamentally wrong is 'problem solved'? If 50 meters is correct, you shouldn't have to have thrown a grenade that far personally to be able to tell that.

"I have never beat my wife", Nor am I a moron who doesn't realise there are many limiting factors in people throwing stuff when it comes to lowering weights to further distance.

But yeah with that I'm out of this thread,

cheers

TD

[Rolando]

[QUOTE=Ulzgoroth;...

So your conclusion is that anyone using the RAW getting numbers you consider fundamentally wrong is 'problem solved'? If 50 meters is correct, you shouldn't have to have thrown a grenade that far personally to be able to tell that.[/QUOTE]


The numbers are not fundamentally wrong, the assumptions don't line up with the results. As pointed before a skilled above average thrower can do the feat.

The table and rule work fine for everyday cases and for fringe cases, but you have to accept some flexibility and abstraction in the design, the grenade may be thrown in this case 48.8 yards not 50 meters, but how can the real man gauge it was exactly 50 meters?

Also not every time you will land your grenade the same distance. What if the grenade was thrown just some 40 yards but due to failure in the throwing skill you get some extra yards of deviation?

There are too many factors and this is just a game. If a player or GM want a specific result the rules allows it inside the realism parameters.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Rolando

The table and rule work fine for everyday cases and for fringe cases, but you have to accept some flexibility and abstraction in the design, the grenade may be thrown in this case 48.8 yards not 50 meters, but how can the real man gauge it was exactly 50 meters?

Because if somebody says they threw a grenade 50 meters, they probably did it on a grenade range with distance markers...

But yeah, it is probably fair to say that an ST 14 throw is close enough to 50 meters not to be a worrying discrepancy, and with +2 to effective ST from skill it's not too hard to reach.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Because if somebody says they threw a grenade 50 meters, they probably did it on a grenade range with distance markers.

Do they go out that far? The US Army basic training standard appears to be 100 feet (30 meters). I guess 50 meters isn't so far beyond that that it isn't worth it to put markers out that far.

Assuming you even *have* markers on the grenade training range - which you might not, given that they'd be getting blown up by off target grenades pretty often.

Of course throwing a grenade as far as you can is fairly useless, you want to throw it to land at a particular place and stop - a long distance throw is going to involve more horizontal momentum (and hence rolling after it hits) than you probably want. My understanding is you are trained to throw them in a style rather different than most sports for just that reason.

[tbone]

I've long thought that the "missing ingredient" in GURPS throwing ranges is simply this: No All-Out consideration for distance.

That is, the rules assume that in any standard throw, you toss out your projectile and return instantly to a defensive combat stance, fully ready to Dodge or Parry or whatever. That's perfect for PCs flinging knives in a melee, but all wrong for a sporting event (or test of grenade distance).

My house rule: let All-Out Attack (Strong) boost throwing distance by 30% (or by one-third if easier).

In the above-mentioned grenade toss, you'd start with the base ST 11 x 3.5 = 38.5 yards, then go All-Out and 30% to get... Just a hair over 50 yards.

That's one way to do it, anyway. Start with good ST, factor in a skill bonus, work up some Extra Effort, go All-Out (Strong) for the above bonus, and house-rule in another distance bonus for a running throw... and you can actually start to approach real-life record throws in GURPS. (All written up here.)

Anyway. Whether you muck with distances or not, it's a wonderfully appropriate topic on the opening day of the Olympics. (Wait. These are the frictionless surface Olympics, not the throwing Olympics. Never mind.)

[AlexanderHowl]

You can increase effective throwing ST from 13 (assuming Throwing at DX+2 through practice or natural talent) to 15 with extra effort by succeeding on a Will-based Throwing-4 roll. If we assume that your Will was 12, you would need to succeed on an effective Throwing Skill of 10, which would give you a 50% chance of reaching 50 yards. Since it was one event, I think that your average maximum distance would probably be 45 yards, since you would not be trying to impress anyone.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Extra Effort is possible, but it's pretty hard to get a substantial benefit without extraordinary will or pretty desperate motivation.

The extra effort roll would be against Will-based Throwing, and so not that unlikely if it's a modest amount that's in addition to the bonus from Throwing.

[GWJ]

Actually THERE IS optional rule in Pyramid #3/34 (Alternate GURPS, p.27) with All-Out Attack (Strong) for thrown weapon (and Commited and Defensive attacks as well) which is working very similarly Tbone's house rule.

[AlexanderHowl]

It is not unreasonable to allow melee attack options for throwing weapons, I generally assume that throwing weapons can always use melee attack options in my games. I would even allow AOA (Strong) for bows (to use more powerful bows) and slings.