Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-01-2018, 05:46 PM   #21
Jim Kane
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: 'Deal Breakers'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
...What I'm talking about is changing what EP is awarded for. The latest version SJ posted said EP was awarded for roleplaying, cooperation, making people laugh, etc., and not for killing things. I just want it to at least acknowledge that some GMs may want to award EP for logical PC experiences, rather than player behavior.
Perfectly stated.

Additionally, many people play RPG's specifically to escape those zealous individuals found in the real world, who, through self-election, feel it their duty and right to shackle the behavior of others (even in a game) and control their opinions, attitudes, and actions; by penalizing them (or their game characters) for *non-conformist and non-cooperative attitudes*, and *bad-think*; through purposeful withholding of award.

So, I agree. There should be no place for subliminal behavioral modification-based techniques - utilizing positive and negative reinforcement rules - implanted into a game about:
  • Killing Monsters
  • Finding Treasure
  • Braving Danger
  • Joining Quests
  • Conjuring Magic
In which, those five things - taken from every published description of the game - should be *the only agenda* found being promoted, overtly or covertly - within the printed pages of anything related to The Fantasy Trip.

Or, simply ask yourself this: "Why would you play a game where you assume the role of a fighter with a very dangerous weapon, where you gain points - *not for using your weapon and being a successful warrior* - but rather, for being a non-individual collectivist, while making other people laugh and feel good?"

What game is that... The Social-Engineering Trip?

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 07-01-2018 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Typo
Jim Kane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 06:15 PM   #22
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Default Re: 'Deal Breakers'?

I have to say that I agree that Experience Point awards should be tied to "in-game" behavior, rather than meta-game behavior. That's sort of like giving an employee a pay raise for telling jokes in the staff room, rather than for good job performance at his actual work.

But, I would include in that "in-game" behavior things like role-playing a situation very well (and in keeping with your character's persona as you described it to me at the start and have since developed it).

To me "bringing snacks" (an actual suggestion in some RPG books I've read) never really qualified as a reason to award Experience to a character, even if it did qualify for praise and thanks at the door to my house.
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 07:24 PM   #23
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Thoughts on Experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
I have to say that I agree that Experience Point awards should be tied to "in-game" behavior, rather than meta-game behavior. That's sort of like giving an employee a pay raise for telling jokes in the staff room, rather than for good job performance at his actual work.

But, I would include in that "in-game" behavior things like role-playing a situation very well ...
Hi JLV,
I agree. I long ago stopped adding up experience for damage and DX bonuses, etc. But I made sure to give healthy bonuses for people who did well in the fights.

Warm regards, Rick
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 09:20 PM   #24
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Geelong, Australia
Default Re: 'Deal Breakers'?

I don't think anything will be a deal breaker for me.

At this stage I'll get the game regardless! Having said that if there are a few issues I'll just set up some house rules.
Wayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 07:32 AM   #25
pyratejohn
 
pyratejohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbia, Maryland
Default Re: 'Deal Breakers'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
But, I would include in that "in-game" behavior things like role-playing a situation very well (and in keeping with your character's persona as you described it to me at the start and have since developed it).
That's how I like to reward them. Basically, if your character does something that would make me say "Wow, that was cool" you stand a good chance of some points. You'd definitely would get points if it was "Wow, that was cool and I could see your character doing that." I'd throw in bonus points if everyone around them table was also Wow-ed by the action.

For Tollenkar session 1 I followed the guidance in the ITL book. Everyone raised an eyebrow at "5 points for every hour of play." Then again, the last two games we played had glacial advancement - well, actually, Classic Traveller has no advancement in the general sense of the term - so I guess to them 25 points seemed like a jackpot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
To me "bringing snacks" (an actual suggestion in some RPG books I've read) never really qualified as a reason to award Experience to a character, even if it did qualify for praise and thanks at the door to my house.
Same here. Given the fact that one person brought 3 six packs of beer, and another brought a six along with a cheese platter and homemade pasta salad, they'd be advancing at quite a clip over the other players.
__________________
Happily RPGing since 1976.
My Gaming and Reenacting Site (under construction)
pyratejohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 11:01 AM   #26
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Default Re: 'Deal Breakers'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
I don't think anything will be a deal breaker for me.

At this stage I'll get the game regardless! Having said that if there are a few issues I'll just set up some house rules.
To me, this is the proper attitude. Mostly because it's the same as mine! ;-)

There aren't any "deal breakers" for me in anything that Steve Jackson writes. If the game isn't my cup of tea, I simply don't play it (Munchkin, for example), but for games that I DO like, if I see something that bothers me too much, I either replace it with a house rule, or I ignore it entirely (assuming it doesn't break the game to do that).

For example, one "error" that I always felt was wrong with Ogre (one of my all time favorite games, by the way) was the Move then Fire sequence. I feel it would be a better reflection of tactical realities to reverse that and Fire and then Move, but changing that would effectively "break the game" for most players, so I don't except when I'm playing solitaire...
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 01:39 PM   #27
ak_aramis
 
ak_aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Default Re: 'Deal Breakers'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
I have to say that I agree that Experience Point awards should be tied to "in-game" behavior, rather than meta-game behavior. That's sort of like giving an employee a pay raise for telling jokes in the staff room, rather than for good job performance at his actual work.
If overall total of work improves when the guy telling jokes is there by at least as much as the second-lowest performing employee, he's worth keeping even if his own work is the lowest production.

This is also the theory behind sexy, friendly, and charming, but inept-at-office-skills, receptionists having been common enough to become a trope exploited in novels, movies and TV. Most tropes have some underlying element of resonance with reality.

Likewise, I like to reward people who make the overall game more fun, even if they aren't doing so with their play.
IE: The guy who brings the Pizza and isn't a jerk at the table, even if his character is of limited use, is more use in session than the guy whose character is doing all the work, but is grumpy, doesn't play nice with the other people, and raids my fridge without asking.

Last edited by ak_aramis; 07-02-2018 at 01:43 PM.
ak_aramis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 01:58 PM   #28
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: 'Deal Breakers'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
Likewise, I like to reward people who make the overall game more fun, even if they aren't doing so with their play.
IE: The guy who brings the Pizza and isn't a jerk at the table, even if his character is of limited use, is more use in session than the guy whose character is doing all the work, but is grumpy, doesn't play nice with the other people, and raids my fridge without asking.
Something I like to do is reward the entire group if a character puts the party into a horrible predicament. That way when a foolish character screws up, all of the players can actually enjoy it.
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 06:07 PM   #29
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Default Re: 'Deal Breakers'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
If overall total of work improves when the guy telling jokes is there by at least as much as the second-lowest performing employee, he's worth keeping even if his own work is the lowest production.

This is also the theory behind sexy, friendly, and charming, but inept-at-office-skills, receptionists having been common enough to become a trope exploited in novels, movies and TV. Most tropes have some underlying element of resonance with reality.

Likewise, I like to reward people who make the overall game more fun, even if they aren't doing so with their play.
IE: The guy who brings the Pizza and isn't a jerk at the table, even if his character is of limited use, is more use in session than the guy whose character is doing all the work, but is grumpy, doesn't play nice with the other people, and raids my fridge without asking.
Meh. Different strokes for different folks.
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 09:34 PM   #30
ak_aramis
 
ak_aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Default Re: 'Deal Breakers'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Something I like to do is reward the entire group if a character puts the party into a horrible predicament. That way when a foolish character screws up, all of the players can actually enjoy it.
My solution for the pizza guy is a free reroll once in the session, rather than XP. Or, in 5E D&D, If the table got fed, everyone got an inspiration start of session. Non-XP rewards are not to be discounted...
ak_aramis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.