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Old 12-15-2017, 04:06 PM   #11
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
With house rules, everyone has a (default, at least) Combat Sense skill, and that's used to determine how aware of details one is, as well as what maneuvers one is allowed to take oneself. Realizing the person you are fighting did an All Out Attack is easy (+4), but only +2 or +0 for people you're not focused on or are obscured.
Do you roll for every combatant every time someone takes a turn? Isn't that a ridiculous amount of rolls?
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

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With house rules, everyone has a (default, at least) Combat Sense skill, and that's used to determine how aware of details one is, as well as what maneuvers one is allowed to take oneself. Realizing the person you are fighting did an All Out Attack is easy (+4), but only +2 or +0 for people you're not focused on or are obscured.
....really? That seems like adding unneeded extra complexity and increases combat time for no added benefit.

In my games I am looking to speed combat up as much as possible and the basic combat rules are often too complicated for my less dedicated players.

Why add an additional roll to figure out if you know you can attack the guy with no defense? Does it add an element that improves game play?

What happens if player A makes the roll, notices the guy has no defense and attacks him? Does players B and C's characters get to know if the antagonist didn't defend? What meta-game happens for player B and C when player A's character hits with the opponent not defending.


In my games I let my players know who AoA and who is doing normal maneuvers and who is AoDing.
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Old 12-16-2017, 01:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

It usually doesn't require a roll for everyone every turn. People already doing something like moving somewhere, already fighting someone in a basic way, loading their bow, or doing something easy for their Combat Sense skill level don't need to roll. Rolls are wanted if someone wants to know some minor detail or do some tricky tactical move above the level their Combat Sense would usually enable.

I only added it after years of playing TFT & GURPS combats so I got really fast at running them and started to experiment with house rules and liked this one a lot because yes, it adds something it turns out I really like. (If you are still getting used to Basic combat and it feels slow, then no, I probably wouldn't recommend it - when getting used to the system (and often even as an experienced player with full knowledge of the situation), there's chaos and uncertainty enough.) It can however actually speed things up by letting you know that several of the fighters have limited options and may be missing some turns or only able to do a basic attack against the person they're already fighting. I really like how it provides a measure and major effect to how aware/experienced/disoriented/surprised people are, and how fancy they're allowed to be how often. So sure the seasoned veterans can notice various details and do smart tactical moves most turns, but the inexperienced or confused guys, not so much, etc. It's a nice added way to represent the advantages of experience, and limit the complexity of deciding what everyone does each turn (because many people will be observing rather than choosing different things to do each second, as they tend to do in real life).

As for your A B C meta knowledge question, player knowledge and PC knowledge are different things. Likely though yes if their PCs are in position to see A attack someone who doesn't defend, they'll know that happened. Some GM discretion is wanted to assess each situation. Even if the player knows, the PC also needs to either have a high enough Combat Sense, or make a roll against it, to be aware enough to take full advantage of their player's knowledge of the situation to do something interesting like re-locate to attack that adversary if they were elsewhere doing something else.
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Old 12-16-2017, 01:31 AM   #14
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

Why not use the Situational Awareness rules?
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Old 12-16-2017, 01:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

What Situational Awareness rules? The three paragraphs of guidelines in GURPS Tactical Shooting page 11? Are there more?
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm relieved to learn that I'm not the only one who announces such things.

I do like the idea of a combat sense roll, and how it allows for combat veterans to be ...veterans.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:30 PM   #17
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

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I do like the idea of a combat sense roll, and how it allows for combat veterans to be ...veterans.
they get that from combat reflect there really get caught flatfooted, and if surpized they revocer quicker, and you feint is resisted by you best combat skill.

and the "untrained fighter" rules that limit maneuvers lets vets use attack not just AOA
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

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I do like the idea of a combat sense roll, and how it allows for combat veterans to be ...veterans.
I don't really know the situational awareness rules that sir_pudding referenced, so they may cover this better. However, I personally would not want to have a "combat sense" roll being made by experienced combatants. It's just way too much rolling, in my opinion. Instead, I'd make it so that only inexperienced fighters had to roll to notice this kind of thing. For example, if you have no points in any combat skills, you have to roll against IQ to notice what sort of maneuver someone's taken. If you have disadvantages directly relevant to being bad at combat, such as Pacifism (Reluctant Killer) or Combat Paralysis, penalize the roll by -2 per -5 the disad is worth. But give a +4 or so to the roll if you take a round to Concentrate, and aren't attacked in the turn before.
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Old 12-16-2017, 01:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

Other than disads that make you 'lock up' in combat (Combat Paralysis, Cowardice, etc.) I'd not penalise such a roll - just because you're a pacifist doesn't mean you're less perceptive, all else being equal - a case could be made that being so interested in not causing needless and wrongful harm you're more perceptive due to being careful.
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Old 12-16-2017, 03:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: Roll to notice foe's All Out Attack

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Other than disads that make you 'lock up' in combat (Combat Paralysis, Cowardice, etc.) I'd not penalise such a roll - just because you're a pacifist doesn't mean you're less perceptive, all else being equal - a case could be made that being so interested in not causing needless and wrongful harm you're more perceptive due to being careful.
For most types of Pacifism, I'd agree. However, Pacifism (Reluctant Killer) is pretty specifically intended to be the "bad at and inexperienced with combat" disad - note how often it's suggested for characters who don't fight due to inexperience. It really doesn't represent a moral resistance to killing, so much as an instinctive aversion to it. Honestly, it might be better split off from the rest of the Pacifism variants and made its own thing, to avoid confusion.
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