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Old 01-12-2017, 09:46 PM   #1
bearit
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

Hey, everyone. Currently Im playing a campaign with a "Firefly" smuggler feel based in the Warhammer 40k universe. Essentially its a roguish space setting at around TL 9.

My character belongs to the "space elf" race that has access to TL 10 and is looking forward to buying several bio-tech cybernetics. The below is my attempt to create a template of Modifiers for cybernetic advantages. I was hoping for your help to understand if the below is correctly done by RAW and if it seems reasonably acceptable in a rather cinematic campaign.

To explain the below:
"Cybernetic Ability" represents any advantage I would like to convert to a cybernetic power.
Each and all powers would have Link for overall flexibility in different situations.
All powers are fueled by an Energy Reserve in the cybernetics themselves.
The Energy Reserve would refill by "leeching" FP from my characters pool when its full.
Also, in times of need, my character could activate the ability to have the Energy Reserve cannibalize first my characters FP, then HP if in dire need.

How about it? does the below stack up to my intentions?

"Cybernetic Ability" -80%
-20% Cybernetic (Eldar) (-5% Technological Countermeasures, -5% Supernatural Countermeasures, -10% Requires (Increased Consumption 1))
-20% Temporary Disadvantage (Shutdown-Electrical)
-10% Takes Extra Time
-5% Requires Will Roll
-5% Accessibility: Can only be powered by Energy Reserve (See below)
-5% Costs Fatigue 1
-15% Gadget/Breakable: Cannot Repair
-20% Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less
+0% Gadget/Breakable: Size -9 or less
+20% Link

Energy Reserve -85% (Capped at -80%)
-20% Cybernetic (Eldar) (-5% Technological Countermeasures, -5% Supernatural Countermeasures, -10% Requires (Increased Consumption 1))
-20% Temporary Disadvantage (Shutdown-Electrical)
-10% Abilities Only
-15% Gadget/Breakable: Cannot Repair
-20% Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less
+0% Recharge (Recharges after normal FP; may recharge 1/s at cost of 1 HP)
+0% Gadget/Breakable: Size -9 or less

Not necessary any more:
Leech (Self to Energy Reserves) -80%
-20% Cybernetic (Eldar) (-5% Technological Countermeasures, -5% Supernatural Countermeasures, -10% Requires (Increased Consumption 1))
-20% Temporary Disadvantage (Shutdown-Electrical)
-15% Gadget/Breakable: Cannot Repair
-20% Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less
-20% Only Heals Energy Reserve
-40% Blood Agent (Direct access to metabolic systems)
-20% Self Only
+0% Gadget/Breakable: Size -9 or less
+25% Accelerated Healing
+50% Steal FP (drains HP when FP is 1/3 Max FP)

Edit: In this Warhammer 40K campaign, Psionics plays a large role. There are both people that can use psionics AND technology that can use it (or inhibit it). The Eldar (space elves) are an inherently psionic race. Their technology is also deeply intertwined with psionics as would be the Cybernetics my character wishes to acquire.

Also, examples of various possible cybernetic abilities would be: Extra ST, Extra DX, Extra HT, Enhanced Move, Super Jump, Resistant, Metabolism Control, Hyperspectral Vision, Striking ST, Perfect Balance, etc.

Edit 2: Combined Psionic and Biological and Requires (Increased Consumption 1) power modifiers to composite "Cybernetic (Eldar)" power modifier.

Last edited by bearit; 01-14-2017 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:49 PM   #2
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

Well, first of all, you really can't stack power modifiers, so putting both Psionic and your custom build for Biological - which are quite similar, the way they're built - is a no-no (Elemental is the only exception, being able to stack with Super, Mutant (from Supers), and maybe Psionic, when Psionic is a sub-set of Super). Also not seeing anything in the description for why you have them as Psionic.

I also wouldn't use Link on the abilities, unless you have a bunch of abilities that you expect to use at the same time.

Other than that... your "Cybernetic Ability" seems like a meta-modifier, a combination of modifiers that add up to (if my math is right) -95%. That's a serious discount; don't forget, though, without any additional enhancements on the base advantage it only gets counted as -80% tops. Even your Leech build comes to -90% as-is, -80% removing the redundant psionic power modifier. That makes it a 5-point advantage, +0.8 points per additional level. It almost looks like you're piling on limitations just to get it down that far for maximum discount. Also, I'm pretty sure some of those limitations aren't kosher for some of the traits, but I don't have my books open to be sure.
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Last edited by Phantasm; 01-13-2017 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:37 AM   #3
bearit
 
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Default Re: Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

As my cybernetics were Eldar in origin, and my character himself being an Eldar, the double power modifier (-10% Psionic, -10% Biological) was meant to express that they could be COMPLETELY inhibited through EITHER Psionic or Biological means: (Technological Countermeasures -5%, Supernatural Countermeasures -5%).

I am aware that discounts cap at -80%. The intent of this "meta-modifier" was not for optimization, but more for role-playibility, detail, and the creation of a unique and standardized cybernetic power system. If i wanted to optimize, I would just use a power modifier with Maximum Duration and be done with it. I wouldn't even need to purchase Energy Reserve OR Leech. I dislike Maximum Duration though as I find it too abstract and not much fun.

Also, Link +20% is important because it allows me to activate several "packages" of advantages on a regular basis.

The only modifier I see as questionable is Self Only -30%. It was the best consensus I could find after searching GURPS manuals and forums.

Last edited by bearit; 01-13-2017 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 01-13-2017, 10:14 AM   #4
bearit
 
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Default Re: Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

I just realized your point about multiple power modifiers. Thanks for that.

Is there anything else that could give me a fun -10% discount?

Maybe Takes Recharge? Although, I've never understood how Takes Recharge interacts with duration abilities...
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Old 01-13-2017, 10:40 AM   #5
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Default Re: Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
the double power modifier (-10% Psionic, -10% Biological) was meant to express that they could be COMPLETELY inhibited through EITHER Psionic or Biological means: (Technological Countermeasures -5%, Supernatural Countermeasures -5%).
The problem here is that the power modifier system doesn't let you stack these. You get -5% if any form of technological countermeasure exists for your ability. You don't get extra points back because two different "flavours" of countermeasure happen to exist. This is because the countermeasures limitations don't really care about how common the countermeasures are, in universe - a psi gets the same -5% on their abilities for supernatural countermeasures if people capable of producing an anti-psi ability are one in a million, or if every second person and their dog happens to generate a dampening field. This is, I think, because it's assumed that, no matter how rare the countermeasure is in-world, narratively it will come up. Even if Doctor Null is the only anti-psi in the world, if you take psionic powers, you'll end up fighting him.

Anyway, Powers is pretty clear about this - power modifiers don't stack with each other, with the exception of Super and Elemental. See "Stacking Power Modifiers", Powers p. 28.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:23 PM   #6
bearit
 
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Default Re: Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

I can see your point. Although, interestingly, I came across this quote by Kromm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
I'd price "Tattoos o' Power" as a -10% power modifier and call it a day. It's really nothing but -5% for mundane countermeasures (slicing off the tattoo) and -5% for Nuisance Effect (advertises that you have powers). It's certainly no more limiting than Biological (Powers, p. 26) or Superscience (Powers, p. 107), both of which are -10%. Unlike gadgets, tattoos are by default concealed under clothing and protected by armor, and aren't prone to being burned away by large-area damage any more than such damage chops off arms and legs. The real limitation is that somebody who gets a peek might later hold you down and do surgery on you, which is on a par with Biological or Superscience implants in a setting where hacking the skin off power-users is commonplace. In other settings, I must agree with whswhs: it's a special effect, worth zilch.

That said, do note that if such tattoos are magical or whatever, there's a further power modifier for that. So you could claim -20% for Magical Tattoos o' Power.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
I can see your point. Although, interestingly, I came across this quote by Kromm...
The Magical power modifier adds a supernatural countermeasure, at least. I can't remember what the other part of it is and don't have access to Powers at the moment.
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:10 PM   #8
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
The Magical power modifier adds a supernatural countermeasure, at least. I can't remember what the other part of it is and don't have access to Powers at the moment.
Magical is essentially:
Ambient energy (mana) blocked by esoteric or supernatural item/condition, -5%
Has countermeasures of special advantages or skills, ala an Anti-Power, -5%

Psionic (and Super) is essentially:
Has countermeasures of special advantages or skills, ala an Anti-Power, -5%
Has technological countermeasures, -5%

The OP's own Biological - distinct from Powers's Biological - is identical in build to Psionic, hence my wariness about them stacking. It feels like double-dipping to let the conditions apply twice.



As for stacking, I look at it this way: If none of the power modifiers have details that overlap, they should be able to stack. Because in Powers Elemental is the only one with "has mundane countermeasures, -10%", it's permitted to stack with Super; a case could possibly be made for allowing it to stack with Magical or Divine (ala a magical Fireball spell or flame sheath not liking water or fire retardant foam). However, if you have Magical and Psionic as your power modifiers, because both have "countermeasures of special advantages/skills, -5%" as part of them, they won't stack. (A GM can create a custom power modifier that'd combine them, but it'd be -15%, not -20% like you'd see from them stacking.)
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Last edited by Phantasm; 01-13-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:30 PM   #9
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
-20% Temporary Disadvantage (Electrical)
I'm going to assume this is the Shutdown variant of Temporary Disadvantage - you may or may not want to note that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
-15% Requires Concentration
This renders many of your suggested Advantages useless - Requires Concentrate means that you can only have the ability on and move 1 Step per round (and get your normal defenses). You can't Attack, take a Move action, etc. You'll want to keep this in reserve for Advantages it makes sense for, rather than having it on everything. If you instead want it to be something where anything that could break the character's concentration risks disrupting the effect, calling for a Will roll (as per normal Concentrate), that's arguably worth -5% (the difference between Requires Concentrate, which has the broken-concentration Will roll, and Requires Ready, which doesn't).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
-5% Accessibility: Can only be powered by Energy Reserve
Nope. I'll be getting to how your ER should be built in a bit, but the fact it can use your own FP to power your abilities means you can use your own FP to power your abilities, and thus the Accessibility isn't legitimate. That said, however, the fact that all of your cybernetic abilities get shut down if you lose your ER (from it getting destroyed) might justify a -5% Limitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
+20% Link
Save this for Advantage combinations that it actually makes sense with. Without Requires Concentrate, you don't need to Link Striking ST, Lifting ST, and Perfect Balance to kick an ork (sorry, space ork) in the groin while standing on a narrow beam and carrying a full pack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearit View Post
Energy Reserve
-10% Cybernetic (Eldar) (Psionic/Biological)
-20% Temporary Disadvantage (Electrical)
-15% Gadget/Breakable: Cannot Repair
-20% Gadget/Breakable: DR 2 or less
-70% Special Recharge (Leech)
-10% Abilities Only
+0% Gadget/Breakable: Size -9 or less
The bolded bit needs to be replaced with "Only Recharges at Full FP." I'd eyeball that at -10%. If it requires you to be resting while recharging, like FP, that's probably another -10%.

Get rid of Leech - it's an overly complicated, unnecessary workaround.


So, your new builds might look like this:

Eldar Cybernetics -80%
-15% Breakable (Cannot Repair)
-20% Breakable (DR 2)
+0% Breakable (SM -9)
-5% Can Be Distracted (Can be shutdown like Concentrate, but doesn't require Concentrate maneuvers)
-5% Costs FP
-5% Countermeasure (Anti-Powers)
-5% Countermeasure (Destroy Energy Reserve Gadget)
-5% Countermeasure (Specialized Technology)
-20% Shutdown (Electrical)

Energy Reserve (Eldar Cybernetics) [0.75]/level
-10% Abilities Only
-15% Breakable (Cannot Repair)
-20% Breakable (DR 2)
+0% Breakable (SM -9)
-5% Countermeasure (Anti-Powers)
-5% Countermeasure (Specialized Technology)
-20% Recharges Only When Resting at Full FP

If you really want ER to be at -80% (and [0.6]/level) instead of the current -75%, I'd argue that having sleep not count as rest (for purposes of regaining ER), as well as needing to maintain concentration to recharge (so Can Be Distracted that applies only to recharging), would together be worth -5%. This is based on each of those Limitations being worth -5% on their own, but only applying this to the recharge aspect (so your ER doesn't empty when you fall asleep or get distracted).
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:53 PM   #10
bearit
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Creation of Cybernetics in Future Space Campaign

Thanks for the response Varyon. Its a lot to think about. I did have a few questions...

Can I increase the power modifier for Cybernetics if I'm forced to take Increased Consumption as a disadvantage? Its a -10 point disadvantage and I believe in Powers p. 21-22 that equates to a -10% addition to Power modifiers.

Also, I can't find in Powers what the activation time for converted switchable abilities like Extra DX is? Is it a free action? Is it a Ready Maneuver?

I assumed activation time was a free action. I misread Requires Concentration or Ready to mean that it extended activation time. What I really want is Takes Extra Time.

Because I misread Requires Concentration or Ready, Link should make more sense.

I would still enjoy the ability to cannibalize my own FP and HP in dire circumstances to keep the Cybernetics running. The best way I can think of that is Leech. Any suggestions?

Last edited by bearit; 01-13-2017 at 06:59 PM.
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