[IC] Lost in Dreams [Mellisa]

[ericthered]

Rotwell listens, and begins to ask questions. He is grasping the concept rather well: He gets the idea of being from the future, and he also gets the idea that history won't be the same if it happens. Some of the questions are about understanding if he's got the implications right. Some seem to be cross questioning to verify her story. Some of them also concern the details of what she did right before she went to sleep.

"So are you aware of anyone who knows this technique? Any way you would be sent back? It would be nice to know the intent of whoever did so."

"Interesting. So if you came back and things are already different... someone else came back as well, about the time our histories change. Do you know your people's history well? I know I wouldn't trust myself to pick out such things from our own history, but I have associates who could... if you know as much as they do about your own history. Not very likely."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"Now for the most awkward part of this little interview. Please give me the religious and philosophical beliefs your people hold to, and I will tell you which of them will cause you problems. Avoid stating them as your own beliefs: I have no desire to accuse you of being a savage or of sedition."

[MatthewVilter]

He is a sharp one! Or maybe I have just underestimated these people again.

I answer his questions as best as I am able although I try to avoid bikeshedding about the details of modern life too much and I don't break my security clearance yet. Also, for now I'm going to stick with the intuitive, one timeline model of time travel which he seems to be picking up.

((I assume that Melissa was working on something fairly esoteric, like 3d printed rocket engine valves or something, anyway.))

...

"No, unfortunately I have no idea how this could have happened at all let alone who could have done it or why. If someone could control time travel...well there aren't a lot of limits on what they might try to do..."

...

"Yes! That was my first thought too; if this time is already different from my history someone else must have gone back farther than me already.


I do have a fairly systematic knowledge of history (technically it's my specialty) but yes, I think it will take some luck and hard work to pin down the differences with any precision. On the other hand I can tell you right now that the biggest difference is likely to be the presence of Alchis. We don't have anything like that in the time I come from or the history that corresponds with here and now.

That makes the whole second traveler hypothesis seem a bit off. How could someone make that kind of change?"

...

Yes, this could get awkward...

((With Easy to Read it is going to pretty obvious that Melissa is or is close to an bring an agnostic atheist and that she believes in mostly free markets and liberal democracies.))

"Well there are a lot of different religions and philosophies all around the world in the time I come from but I live in the US, or USA; the United States of America. We bel- Um, the official state policy is free religion; people are allowed whatever beliefs about god or gods they want and for the most part are allowed to follow the traditional practises of their faiths. On the other hand most people in the US are, or claim to be, Christian; mostly variants of Protestantism but many Catholics as well. Those religions have mostly to one degree or another adjusted their doctrine to take into account things like heliocentrism and the discoveries that have followed it. A lot of people don’t subscribe to any particular religion; they get by with their own personal understanding of God and some people don’t believe in a god at all.

The USA started as a collection of successful british colonies. There was a dispute over taxes and when the Crown started cracking down the Americans didn’t like the methods and declared independance. There was a war and since then the US has been self governing; a democracy of the people. At least that’s the idea. And that idea turned out to be popular; one way or another a lot of the biggest and most powerful countries are democracies now, er...then.

There have been problems though. A big part of the economy, at least in America, ran on slave labor, of all things, for a while; it took another war to get over that. Here and there somebody was able to convince his countrymen that their particular configuration of skin, hair, and eye color was best and that they should fight a big war over it. It seems like there is always a small war going on over religion or to install or depose a tyrant somewhere.

The biggest problem in the time right before I was born was communism. Most of the people in the United States think that people should be free to buy and sell goods and services, work for who they like, and hire whoever is willing to work for what they will pay. That’s “capitalism”. A lot of people around the world think that. But a lot of people think that, well the details have to do with machines that let people do more work more quickly and who should own them but it boils down to everything being owned by the government and everybody working for the government. That’s “communism”. The two sides were convinced that the other wanted to wipe them out but they were each so powerful that neither one wanted to go to war so they mostly just watched each other looking for weaknesses and funding or supporting proxies for their own philosophies in smaller wars around the world.

After a long time the capitalist economies were working really well and communist ones were failing so communism kind of fell apart. The communist countries that are left are either not very communist anymore or very weak.

Since then it seems like the biggest conflict is from religious extremism. People fight or just set off bombs in public because they don’t like the way things are going or someone has told them they should. Hindus and Muslims in India, Muslims and Jews around Jerusalem, Catholics and Protestants in Ireland... As bad as that is though I think more people die from disease and starvation that could be prevented so...

...

So I guess you could say most of the people where I come from are Christian and believe in democracy and capitalism.

And I didn’t even really get into science...

[ericthered]

OCC: yes, I'm portraying them as quite smart about this. You're dealing with a properly trained acedemic. As far as I can tell difference between ancient and modern science is mostly about verification and precision, not about the complexities of the concepts involved. Oh, and there are philosophical differences about the nature of truth, but once again, they don't really interfere with theoretical ideas, though they might interfere with putting them into practice.

Galrun: "So we know nothing of why they tried this. hmmph. I suppose your skill set may provide some hints there. They sent historian-- maybe they want the change discovered. Which means they either want to correct a mistake or there are two sides to this."

Rotwell: "But she has a point. Why would Alchis be the difference? unless the time meddlers discovered it after Melissa's time and brought the knowledge here. Its discovery is at least a good starting point. But how would alchis be around here and not your time?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rotwell: "Well, the good news is that religious extremism won't be a problem around here. You'll run into problems in other lands, but in civilization, the church stepped too far a generation or two ago and we dealt with it. Your economics don't seem like they'll be a problem, either one. Its an odd place to center a philosophy, but then again so is what happens to you when you die. I don't think I'll have to worry about you advocating the church-- that's treason."

"I wouldn't talk about commoners being as good as their rulers. It was never true, and its even less true now. Once a farmer could have become a king. Now, you could perhaps make his children nobles, if you really cared to, but alchis has changed men to be more suited for their roles. Any denial of that isn't just stupid, its treason. Though I agree that killing everyone with a different configuration is stupid. We should accept them for their strengths and full-fill our duties in society."

[MatthewVilter]

((Right, right, all makes sense. Melissa was estimating the difficulty of explaining the speculative fiction concept of time travel to someone born before The Time Machine as opposed to the difficulty of explaining an abstract theoretical to a academic. She probably also, as a technological and cultural optimist, has an underappreciation of old timey folks' capabilities and has not fully taken into account whatever advantages the people of this world may have over their historical counterparts.

Now she has to come to terms with the fact that both the local ideologies are morally reprehensible to her. Which means I need to really get into character which is what has been taking me so long. Hum...))

"Good point! If I was picked for this someone may have wanted to introduce some of my knowledge to this time...with billions to pick from and hundreds of millions of them educated perhaps my exact set of knowledge is what was required..."

...

"Is there evidence that Alchis has always existed or is there any chance that it was created or planted or grown in place or something relatively recently?"

Or could it all have been destroyed in my timeline?

...

They "dealt with it"? ...I'm sure that was just as easy and clean as he makes it sound...

I roll my eyes without realising it.

"That can't have been pleasant... Although I can definitely see how that might have been the thing to do...

Without God how do the kings get their mandate to rule?"

...

"It is an odd place to center a philosophy...that's the kind of thing that can happen when representatives of the people of a country are in charge; they try to come up with the theoretical best way to manage things and sometimes they get caught up in the ideas more than the outcomes...

...

Damn, it's the transhuman nightmare of justified classism 400 years early...

"What kind of improvements do the nobles get that make them so good at running things?"

[ericthered]

OCC: I was wondering what took so long...



Rotwell: "Alchis is a mineral, and I don't know how it could be placed in the ground anymore than iron ore could. and if they had that ability, why keep it in the ground? why not use it to steam roll their enemies"

Galrun: "Perhaps the ground is where they need it. And perhaps their enemies did get steam rolled. Who would have..."

Rotwell: "The church. The great enemy of the early alchis period was the church."

Galrun: "If there are two sides then, its the church or an ally of the church that sent her back."

Rotwell: "It doesn't seem likely, given her personal leanings-- you are opposed to the church, if I understand things."

Galrun: "Unless she's with an ally. She did end up in the hands of the rebels. Given what her people believe about equality... She was probably meant to end up in their hands. I probably messed up the plan."

------------------------------

Galrun: "The kings never ruled through divine right in the first place. They ruled through right of ownership, and because they were the ones with the ability to do it. The church would have had everything run through the bishops and the pope. would have run everything out of italy, which was never a power center."

Rotwell: "It was certainly messy, but we're all better off because of it. And yes, the pragmatism is the best way to rule. Anything else was only a crutch to enforce the real source of power."

-------------------------------------------------------

Galrun: "The strength to rule, the health to provide stability, the age to acquire wisdom, and a clear head to use it."

[MatthewVilter]

My dream!

"Perhaps you did mess up their plan: Before I arrived I dreamt of a dragon slaying knight. I was sleeping as I traveled; it is just possible that in my dream I perceived the influence of a competitor to my abductor altering my course to cross your path..."

I must tread carefully here...

"It is possible someone might expect me to champion the cause of the rebels... But my knowledge of history gives me a dim view of wanton rebellion. My love of science, natural philosophy, and progress makes me unlikely to side with Lorvian ideologies. Perhaps most importantly, I, along with most of my contemporaries, hold human life in high esteem; the Lorvians seek to destroy Alchis stockpiles and mines partly to deprive the enhanced of necessary sustenance...unacceptable!

Of course someone could miss those points and expect me to side with them for other reasons..."

Enough!

...

"Pragmatism is indeed the best way to rule... But if one has power and the will and knowledge to wield it with great effect one also needs an end to pursue. Best to make it a noble one but not to get so caught up in it that one loses sight of other opportunities missed or the damage done in pursuit.

But that is a high standard to hold anyone to, even if they are built for it..."

[ericthered]

Rotwell: "That is indeed an interesting dream-- not only did you travel here, but previously to arriving you saw features of this time. most strange."

Galrun: "Are there those of your associates who would be better candidates for Lorvian rebellion? especially that sleep near you or could be mistaken for you?"

Rotwell: "Unless she is still being trained, I do not see how that could be.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Galrun laughs: "Honor. Its the only thing sufficient to keep a ruler in line. He knows his duties, and what will be said of him if he does not uphold them."

Rotwell: "Honor differs greatly between lands, Galrun. She could have a very different idea of honor."

Galrun: "Upholding oaths. Protecting one's family and country. Presenting yourself ... honourably to others."

Rotwell seems to see a flaw in this, but doesn't say anything more.

[MatthewVilter]

I consider my roommates...would any of them be likely side wholeheartedly with one of the factions in this world?

((Or do you want me to invent my roommates?))

"Oh sorry, I guess I was not clear. I am still a student. I am studying history and, well, I guess you could call it advanced rocketry."

...

I look between Rotwell and Galrun.

"Honor is a very good place to start... But Rotwell is right; responsability is a lot more complex than it might seem at first or from a distance..."

[ericthered]

OCC: Permission to invent roommates granted.

Galrun: "Indeed it is. One reason why its among the hardest professions to enhance: we can give a healthy body, a sound mind, and time to develop them, but good ruling is an art, and cannot be bestowed by mere alchis."

Rotwell: "At any rate, our purpose is to educate you so you don't unwittingly commit sedition. Do you think you can avoid such things?"