Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2017, 10:41 AM   #41
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

Not to burst any bubbles, but, the whole "use your keys between your fingers" is a terrible idea.

You are more likely to injure yourself. Credible self-defense course teach attaching a short cord and swinging the keys like a tiny little flail. Still not as good as a real weapon or solid unarmed combat training, but...
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 11:52 AM   #42
safisher
Gunnery Sergeant,
 Imperial Marines
Coauthor,
 GURPS High-Tech
 
safisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Not to burst any bubbles, but, the whole "use your keys between your fingers" is a terrible idea.
This. An all-out punch has an good chance of crippling your hand. I used to teach a SHARP class for women's defense. We never advised this. The key can turn in your grasp, and you will pay for it. Try it yourself: put the keys between your fingers and push down on a table. The key point will pivot and you will see what I mean. This is how the awl in a SAK will work, though it's advantage is you have more of a grip with the knife as a fist load. Anyway, it's a weak attack at best, and does very little damage. Of course, you also run the risk of damaging the key, which is bad if you want to flee in your car. A better option is to use a small flashlight as a fist load, and attack with a hammer fist. Or use a large tactical pen for a stabbing attack.
__________________
Buy my stuff on E23.
My GURPS blog, Dark Journeys, is here.
Fav Blogs: Doug Cole here , C.R. Rice's here, & Hans Christian Vortisch here.
safisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 12:00 PM   #43
safisher
Gunnery Sergeant,
 Imperial Marines
Coauthor,
 GURPS High-Tech
 
safisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrosome View Post
Not really- there's a back to it. And you must acknowledge that something is better than nothing, in a desperate situation.
There are much better "somethings."

Quote:
With the awl you have the body of the knife and, yes, it does't lock but the awl will probably be halfway inside the target before it can fold over your fingers.
If you hit something hard there is no telling if it folds; if you hit it hard enough, yes it can really hurt you.

Quote:
The real problem is that the awl simply isn't long enough to injure anything except an eye maybe.
If the small point did not move, such as with a kubaton https://www.amazon.com/Black-Steel-K.../dp/B00323EMRY
you'd be way better off.

In GURPS terms, as the GM, if I were generous, I might let you use a SAK like this if you had a proper Perk. This is an attack that requires training; otherwise, you'd likely just hurt yourself. Pick up a rock instead.
__________________
Buy my stuff on E23.
My GURPS blog, Dark Journeys, is here.
Fav Blogs: Doug Cole here , C.R. Rice's here, & Hans Christian Vortisch here.
safisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 12:04 PM   #44
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

I've had several self-defense courses thrust upon me; they kept coming free with e.g. my gym classes, my martial arts classes, Pathfinders[1], egad.

Every single course emphasized that the "I AM THE KEY WOLVERINE" thing is just as stupid as that sounds. Women are not less likely to mutilate ourselves with them; consider that while I certainly have some pretty sucky upper-body strength[2], I also have hands that would be considered incredibly tiny on a man of my height and shoulder width. Add in women's typically lower grip strength, and I'll have even more trouble controlling something like a key. A precision grip isn't a good grip for a weapon in combat, it doesn't use your strength properly. A stupid grip like pinched between your fingers is just stupid.

[1] Girl Scouts for Commonwealth countries.
[2] Gender differences are completely drowned out by being a total couch potato for over a decade.

I suspect women "punch like a girl" as much because they've got no idea how to do it, they know that "good girls don't", and they never do exercises that would develop those muscles. Anatomical differences are an indisputable factor, but lack of a clue, lack of willingness, and lack of conditioning are pretty bad too.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A neglected GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 12:22 PM   #45
safisher
Gunnery Sergeant,
 Imperial Marines
Coauthor,
 GURPS High-Tech
 
safisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I suspect women "punch like a girl" as much because they've got no idea how to do it, they know that "good girls don't", and they never do exercises that would develop those muscles. Anatomical differences are an indisputable factor, but lack of a clue, lack of willingness, and lack of conditioning are pretty bad too.
Exactly. I taught dozens, perhaps hundreds of college-aged women (and older) in a self defense class over a couple of years. Some of them were very fit, but most were not aggressive, and they very poorly trained in making attacks. I could simply wade into them, ignore their attacks, knock them down and pin them in a second or two. They were often very surprised by that outcome. By the end of the class some of them were able to defend themselves better than when they started; I suspect many of them would need months of training to reach that level. Upper body strength is very important, but so is knowing how to strike, where to strike, and how to do so without making yourself an easier target. It's actually a very complex subject and takes careful training to help a complete novice not HURT themselves when they do it. They key thing is just a dumb gimmick.
__________________
Buy my stuff on E23.
My GURPS blog, Dark Journeys, is here.
Fav Blogs: Doug Cole here , C.R. Rice's here, & Hans Christian Vortisch here.
safisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 04:34 PM   #46
fredtheobviouspseudonym
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

Quote:
Originally Posted by safisher View Post
. . .
Universal Tool, TL10. Cr1,000, 0. 5 lbs.
This is a palm-sized tool made from a solid block of memory metal which folds, extends, and changes shapes and purposes on demand. It provides a -2 (quality) equipment modifier for any repair skill and counts as at least improvised equipment (-5 quality) for most any technological tasks. . . . Each transformation takes 2 seconds, and can be selected from a menu on the handle. . .!
and it shapes itself into letters to make rude statements when the user does something foolish.
fredtheobviouspseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 07:13 PM   #47
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

Quote:
Originally Posted by safisher View Post
Exactly. I taught dozens, perhaps hundreds of college-aged women (and older) in a self defense class over a couple of years. Some of them were very fit, but most were not aggressive, and they very poorly trained in making attacks. I could simply wade into them, ignore their attacks, knock them down and pin them in a second or two. They were often very surprised by that outcome. By the end of the class some of them were able to defend themselves better than when they started; I suspect many of them would need months of training to reach that level. Upper body strength is very important, but so is knowing how to strike, where to strike, and how to do so without making yourself an easier target. It's actually a very complex subject and takes careful training to help a complete novice not HURT themselves when they do it. They key thing is just a dumb gimmick.
I'm not. That's how I would normally take someone smaller then me. It was surprisingly common to meet a guile bully who would attack out of the blue for the fun of it, hit all they wanted, and so on knowing I would never hurt them back for fear of Authority. The only thing to really do with that is to come close and get a pin. The bratty little thing does not get what he deserves but I can avoid worse trouble. It was a very amateurish way to fight but the goal was not to fight it was to suppress the fight and anyway it had the advantage that it could not fail.

But I was young and so was my opponent. Children don't always have the same inhibitions. What you seem to have met is people without the will to hit who probably did have the means. They were not accustomed to it from exercise, on the other hand most normal citizens are not(I know the basic way to go about it but I haven't done so in decades). But I think a critical point is that you were an instructor not an enemy. They didn't WANT to hit you and that took a lot of the confidence from behind the blows. I don't think I could credibly try to hit someone I really wasn't trying to hit either.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 08:16 PM   #48
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

Quote:
Originally Posted by safisher View Post
Exactly. I taught dozens, perhaps hundreds of college-aged women (and older) in a self defense class over a couple of years. Some of them were very fit, but most were not aggressive, and they very poorly trained in making attacks. I could simply wade into them, ignore their attacks, knock them down and pin them in a second or two.
My grade 9 highschool gym class was sex segregated, and the girls got a self defense course. My year had two girls that embodied the extremes.

One was very indoctrinated that the appropriate response to being grabbed was to squeal delicately and flap her hands a little.

The other (sitting on the ground) wrapped herself around the instructors leg like a snake, bit his kneecap, hard, and SHOOK it like a terrier with a rat. Poor guy had a cane for the rest of the course.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A neglected GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 08:32 PM   #49
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
My grade 9 highschool gym class was sex segregated, and the girls got a self defense course. My year had two girls that embodied the extremes.

One was very indoctrinated that the appropriate response to being grabbed was to squeal delicately and flap her hands a little.

The other (sitting on the ground) wrapped herself around the instructors leg like a snake, bit his kneecap, hard, and SHOOK it like a terrier with a rat. Poor guy had a cane for the rest of the course.
That wasn't such a bad response though the squeal has it's advantage in a crowd. It is likely enough to make an attacker disappear. It shouldn't be a "delicate" squeal though but one that makes people know something is happening.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 08:42 PM   #50
mr beer
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Swiss Army Knife

I take a weekly exercise-style boxing class, there's a girl who is usually there as well who is technically superior to me - she has better cardio, punches considerably more rapidly and probably more accurately. I'm confident I'd beat her 90% of the time in an actual boxing match though because I could shake off her punches (short of a lucky hit) whereas mine would put her on the ground. In a real fight it would be even more one sided because my upper body strength is so much greater and I'd take it to the ground. If she had a weapon like a knife or club, I wouldn't want to bet on the outcome.

Overall if you're a girl fighting a guy, I guess avoiding trouble > running > gun > hand weapon > unarmed combat. Actually that's probably a reasonable way for men to prioritise as well.
mr beer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
swiss army knife, ultra-tech

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.