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Old 04-05-2010, 03:20 PM   #1
sir_pudding
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Default Difficult Player Type

It's been awhile since I read Robin's Laws and I don't currently have a copy, so I'm not entirely sure if he covers this. At any rate, I could use whatever advice that the hive mind can give. I have a huge problem with "Looney" or "Wacky" players.

This is a type that I've had problems with in the past (and can reasonably consider it a taxonomic category as I've played with half a dozen individuals of this type over my gaming career). It's recently become a concern of mine again as some friends of a player are perhaps interested in joining my game, and have been described as matching this type. I'd rather not simply ban them from playing, as my inability to handle an entire type of player seems a weakness on my part, not on theirs.

These players have the following traits:
  • They like to do "wacky", outre', and implausible things in game.
  • They are adept at rationalizing their actions in-game, in a way that makes sense apparently to them, and therefore don't respond well to iron handed statements of "You simply wouldn't do that"
  • They tend to instigate and escalate conflicts in game.
  • They don't seem to generally fear narrative consequences for their actions, and will happily get the entire party killed or arrested rather than desist.
  • They tend to become progressively stranger as the campaign continues, as though they are deliberately establishing limits and then pushing them.

Advice appreciated.
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Old 04-05-2010, 03:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

Any of the last three points are enough for me to not play with them (I can work with the first two). You can't fix it or work around it and will only annoy the other players if you let them join.
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Old 04-05-2010, 03:42 PM   #3
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Any of the last three points are enough for me to not play with them (I can work with the first two). You can't fix it or work around it and will only annoy the other players if you let them join.
Given the number of times I've seen this, I wonder if it isn't a failing on my part to provide them with a acceptable version of what they are after.

EDIT: Besides, I'd rather not tell someone, "I'm sorry you can't game with us, because your friend described you as 'kinda like [x]' where x is this person you've never met, but I can't game with".
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Old 04-05-2010, 03:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

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Any of the last three points are enough for me to not play with them (I can work with the first two). You can't fix it or work around it and will only annoy the other players if you let them join.
I am, alas, inclined to agree. From a game point of view, this sort of character is a liability and there's no reason for the other characters to keep him around. From a player point of view, this sort of person has little interest in playing the game, being focused on provoking the GM and the other players more than developing a character. He is, in a way, playing a completely different game: heckling the game players.

As a frequent player of comic relief characters, I'm generally pro-whackiness, but it sounds like what you're dealing with goes beyond playing a whacky character and into bomb-throwing for the sake of destruction. Either don't play with them or play zap-style Paranoia, where actions are divorced from consequence (that is, everybody gets blown up anyway) and their bomb-throwing will hardly be noticed for all the bombs that the setting is throwing back at them.
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Old 04-05-2010, 03:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
As a frequent player of comic relief characters, I'm generally pro-whackiness, but it sounds like what you're dealing with goes beyond playing a whacky character and into bomb-throwing for the sake of destruction.
Is it not possible though that I'm a boring stick-in-the-mud and I turn perfectly good players into these kind of problem players, by not allowing them a constructive outlet for their preferred play style? I've seen this quite a few times in the last 20-some years, surely the common factor is myself. Do other people have this problem?

Last edited by sir_pudding; 04-05-2010 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:00 PM   #6
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  • They tend to become progressively stranger as the campaign continues, as though they are deliberately establishing limits and then pushing them.
I had to kick out a player like this.
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:04 PM   #7
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I had to kick out a player like this.
What do you do then when a new player is recruited by one of your players, and is described to you as "sorta like the person you kicked out"? Do you give them a chance?
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:10 PM   #8
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What do you do then when a new player is recruited by one of your players, and is described to you as "sorta like the person you kicked out"? Do you give them a chance?
Well, that's actually a good question and one i've not had to give any thought towards yet. This player, for me, is a rare case.

So yeah...i'll be interested to hear what others have to say on the matter.
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:12 PM   #9
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I've seen this quite a few times in the last 20-some years, surely the common factor is myself. Do other people have this problem?
It's a play style I recognize. It sounds a lot like the kill-happy D&D I saw and sometimes participated in in high school and before, where players came up with ever more inventive ways of torturing peasants and attacking city guards on a whim. Assuming they're not downright antisocial, they're gaming purely as a release. They don't want plot, character development, immersion, emotional depth, or anything like that. They want to groove on being powerful characters in a world where they can do as they like, building a Grand Guignol of chaos. The problem, frequently, is people who want that is that they have no interest in playing anything else. That's OK if everyone else is on the same page, just like any other game, but it's even less compatible with conflicting styles than usual. If you can run a chaotic game and everyone else want to play a chaotic game, you're good. However, any player who can't or won't get out of his rut is a problem, and this sort of rut, which steers itself across the paths of other players, is one you either have to go with wholeheartedly or not at all.

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What do you do then when a new player is recruited by one of your players, and is described to you as "sorta like the person you kicked out"? Do you give them a chance?
This is where you get all Stoddard on their ass: bind them to a social contract. Present them with as clear a picture as you can of what your game is about. If they're clearly interested and seem willing to go along with it (including not building a problematically weird character), bring them to a trial game or three. If they show signs of being disruptive, be prepared to say "this isn't going to work" and let them go.
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Last edited by Andrew Hackard; 04-05-2010 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Difficult Player Type

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Advice appreciated.
I'll help you dispose of the bodies.
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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Is it not possible though that I'm a boring stick-in-the-mud and I turn perfectly good players into these kind of problem players, by not allowing them a constructive outlet for their preferred play style? I've seen this quite a few times in the last 20-some years, surely the common factor is myself.
A good man knows his limitations.

If you want to work on expending your range that's commendable, but consider the campaigns in which you do it practise pieces, and don't worry about it if they have defects. Practice pieces are not the place for perfectionism.
Quote:
Do other people have this problem?
I used to. The reason that I don't any more is that I am more selective about my players than I used to be, not that I learned to cope with those players in play or (I think) that I worked out how to induce them to settle down.
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What do you do then when a new player is recruited by one of your players, and is described to you as "sorta like the person you kicked out"? Do you give them a chance?
Yep. I start by sitting with the new recruit over a cup of coffee and chatting about play styles, campaign expectations, a detailed consistent world as my stock in trade as a GM, fathomable steadfast characters, steadily rising conflict, the "would he really?" test, etc. If I am intensely sceptical or get a bad vibe I speak even more slowly than usual and with even more of an Eeyore-ish intonation than usual, and send the prospective recruit away with a copy of Frey's How to Write a Damned Good Novel to read for tips on playing style.

As Turhan's Bey Company explains above, this amounts to offering a social contract to players. I am explicit and up-front about what style my game is, what I offer, and what I want in return. Players who are unhappy with that choose not to play, and those who go against an explicit agreement can be sacked without compunction.

Last edited by Agemegos; 04-05-2010 at 04:39 PM.
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