New enhancements and limitations for Extra Arms

[tantric]

I'm running into some frustration trying to make templates for my arthropod based Little People. Consider, for instance, a Scorp. The first two arms are massive claws, the second pair are normal hands, the third are foot-hands and the fourth and fifth sets of limbs are legs. The first option is to build all of the hand related advantaged into modifiers. The second option is to give them levels, so that each level represents 2 limbs. Thus our Scorp might buy one level each of Sharp Claws and Hamfisted for the pinchers, one level of Claws for the hands and Extra Arms(2)-Foothands for the third set.

(Yes, I know what the book says. I'm fully aware that all hand related advantages and disadvantages apply to all limbs equally)

There are other races where the first arms should be delicate and dextrous, the second set average and the third set foothands. I really don't see having a #Limbs multiplier for these advantages and disadvantages

#Limbs Multiplier
1 *.5
2 *1
3 *1.5
4 *2

[vicky_molokh]

Use the best advantages to represent your best group of hands. Apply "Temporary Disadvantages" to the other Extra Arms.

[tantric]

Actually, there is a formula for converting limb based modifiers to traits.

So, if I define Claw(Pincher) as +2 per die crushing damage, costing 5 points or +100% for two arms, 2.5 pts for each arm or +50% modifier for each arm.

The rule is point cost = 1/10 percentile cost per arm, so one long arm costs 10 points

I want to make a Fiddler Crab - in the first set of arms, the right is a pincher with long, the left is no physical attack and 2 levels of high manual dex. The second set are foot manipulators.

1R = 10+2.5+10=22.5 OR 10+50%+50%=20pts unless you do it sequentially, then its fine.
1L = 10-5+5=10
2L&R = -6

Total cost: 38.5->39

Okay, yuck. Help please

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

I'm not an expert on Characters but I think you are making the math too complicated.

I do not believe that the disadvantage Hamfisted should apply. Although Uplift is 3e I would use it as a guideline in this (keeping in mind that it lists crab claws under two different hand types!). A race should only get Hamfisted if that is the best type of hand they have. If they have four hands and only two have a manual DX disadvantage, but the other two hands are comparable to human hands, then the race does not get points for Hamfisted. Instead I would just note the reduced DX of those particular hands as a feature (or a 0-point modification of the Extra Arms.)

Originally Posted by tantric

I'm running into some frustration trying to make templates for my arthropod based Little People. Consider, for instance, a Scorp. The first two arms are massive claws, the second pair are normal hands, the third are foot-hands and the fourth and fifth sets of limbs are legs. The first option is to build all of the hand related advantaged into modifiers. The second option is to give them levels, so that each level represents 2 limbs. Thus our Scorp might buy one level each of Sharp Claws and Hamfisted for the pinchers, one level of Claws for the hands and Extra Arms(2)-Foothands for the third set.

So Scorps have:

2 crab claws (Claws plus Hamfisted)
2 humanoid hands (Claws?)
2 foot manipulators
4 legs

Is this correct?

Now, I'm assuming that the legs can be covered by Extra Legs (4 legs) for 5 points.

Next, the pinchers. "There is no discount for claws on only some of your limbs." because you can attack with whichever, so Sharp Claws (converts crushing to cutting) would be 5 points.

However, if the pinchers do +2 crushing, instead of +0 cutting, then that could be represented with Blunt Clawsx2, which comes to 6 points, with a 0-point modifier noting that only the Pinchers get Clawsx2, only the humanoid hands get ordinary Blunt Claws, and whatever the other limbs get. You do not have to pay extra for Claws on the other limbs, nor do you get a discount for having only two pinchers. The advantage only cares if you have any Claws and can attack with them. Since ordinary Blunt Claws cost less than the +2 damage Claws you want, you only pay for the best type of Claws.

As I said, if Scorp have humanoid hands (with human DX?) they do not get any points for Hamfisted, instead that is just a feature. So Extra Arms (20) plus Claws (as described)(6) is 26 points.

Finally, foot manipulators. To determine the point cost, first you need to specify the effect these have. When a Scorp is using them as hands, what impact does it have on his ability to walk, run, etc.? Foot Manipulators, as a disadvantage, assumes that the character can't walk while using the manipulators, which presumably doesn't apply to a Scorp who has four other legs. I would build these as 2 Extra Arms (20) with a Temporary Disadvantage to represent the reduction in Basic Move, or whatever happens when they are on four legs instead of six. I think you also need a second pair of Extra Legs to represent what a Scorp has when not using its foot manipulators, since the arm disadvantage is a Temporary one.


So far Scorp have:

2 pinchers, Claws +2 crushing damage, Hamfisted -? (26 pts)
2 humanoid hands, +1 crushing damage, normal DX (0 points)
2 foot manipulators (???) (5 + (20 x ??%))
4 legs (5 points)

Does this help?