Gurps Vampire vs Hunter balance concerns.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by JoelSammallahti

Thanks, mate! :D

Of course.

It's 4e and WoD like. So I figured it might be easier to use that than converting everything to 4e on their own.

[Boge]

Is there a point breakdown for the 3e rulings, how much more points a vampire is compared to a human? Does a newbie vampire gain points?

If you were to just convert the costs of disciplines from 3e to 4e, how would you change it?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Boge

Is there a point breakdown for the 3e rulings, how much more points a vampire is compared to a human?

GURPS VtM had guidelines, but I don't recall now what they were.

Does a newbie vampire gain points?

Yeah, the kindred template was a big chunk of points.

If you were to just convert the costs of disciplines from 3e to 4e, how would you change it

Borrow the 20th anniversary edition of VtM and convert them from scratch.

[Boge]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Borrow the 20th anniversary edition of VtM and convert them from scratch.

Might sound dumb, but as a quick fix to HELP balance a little bit, how would YOU adjust it? Increase by 20%? 50%? A typical character in 3e was 100 points, 150 points in 4e...so...I know it's not as cut and dry as just increasing the costs by 50%, but what would you change them to?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Boge

Might sound dumb, but as a quick fix to HELP balance a little bit, how would YOU adjust it? Increase by 20%? 50%? A typical character in 3e was 100 points, 150 points in 4e...so...I know it's not as cut and dry as just increasing the costs by 50%, but what would you change them to?

The problem is they were given a fixed per level cost regardless of the effects.

[Boge]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The problem is they were given a fixed per level cost regardless of the effects.

Which is what I'd bet our GM will end up doing. I wouldn't be surprised if he just went with these 3rd edition costs. That's what he did in the past.

I'm just trying to get an idea of how far gimped I'm going to end up being compared the them. It's all guesses. I just want to get some sort of expectation so I can mentally prepare myself for the disappointment, or to ease those worries. I've learned that the players bound to become vampires will start at 100 point humans though. So between the point difference in becoming a vampire (advantages and disadvantages), and the extra points he's going to give them to start their disciplines, hopefully that will equal my 200 point character. I don't have hopes though as most of the converted templates I'm seeing people post here and there are between 150 to 250 points. I expect the vampires to be between 75 and 100 points higher than my character, whether those "points" actually show up on their sheets or not.

(I have anxiety issues, by the way. That's probably the source of this entire topic.)

[sir_pudding]

In 4e I would treat dots in [Discipline] as levels of [Discipline] Talent and allow appropriate abilities to be bought at appropriate levels of talent, for their full cost as abilities with a Vampiric power modifier (obviously supernatural countermeasures and most cost blood pool, so probably Costs HP too).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Boge

I'm just trying to get an idea of how far gimped I'm going to end up being compared the them.

There's a decent chance you'll wind up overpowered, a lot of stuff on typical vampire templates is inefficient use of points. A lot depends on just how abilities get written up, though. You could actually do VtM pretty well as a small spell list per discipline.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

There's a decent chance you'll wind up overpowered,

Unlikely if they stick to purely mundane and non-cinematic traits, which I think is the intent?

A realistic 200 point millionaire or Navy SEAL or whatever isn't really a match for a 300 point or whatever Vampire, since they have very little they can do to counter most disciplines.

[AlexanderHowl]

Several of the Kindred Powers are difficult to translate into 4e. I would suggest doing them from scratch rather than trying to convert 3e to 4e. Let us do the example for the three physical disciplines.

Celerity: Each level of Celerity allows for one extra attack and a 100% increase in Base Move. The simple way to do that would be to have each level of Celerity give Extra Attack 1 (Costs 1 HP/second, -20%; Multi-Attack, +20%) [25] and Basic Move +5 [25], meaning that it would end up costing 50 points per level.

Fortitude: Each level of Fortitude allows for great durability, so I would have it just grant DR 10 (Flexible, -20%; Force Field, +20%), making it 50 points per level.

Potence: Each level of Potence allows for great strength, so I would have it just grant Lifting ST+5 [15], Striking ST+5 [25], and Super Jump 1 [10], making it 50 points per level.