[Mass Combat] putting a TS value on an animal master.

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Okay, so that's a fun case I've been thinking about. Let's assume I have a character that can command animals on a large scale. Let's limit it to mammals.

Let's say she's part of an army that wants to assault a big TL 8 city (say New York) where TL 8 defenders are holed up as good as it gets. Let's say she gets enough prep time to command every single rat, stray cat and stray dog in New York. Let's assume her abilities are known, but the defenders aren't expecting her specifically.

What's the Troop Strength of that army (that is, only the stray and rats of New York, not the actual grunts with rifles and air support and satellite communication and so on)?

I assumed she'd automatically wins the Recon Contest by enough of a margin to ambush the defenders, but beyond that...

[Celjabba]

2.000.000 rats,
ten of thousands of stray cats,
thousands of stray dogs
not counting the zoo for some elite troops ...

If the character have enough multitasking to command every animals in real time, he can infiltrate any building that isn't sealed, bury the defenders under tons of animals, ...
If he can access the sense of the animals, even better !

(you may want to check 'Worm' by Wildbow for ideas)

As far as troops rating goes : Compared to humans, you have less strength but far more mobility, and much better resistance to firearms as a Swarm.
Lets say 100 rats are a match for one human with a knife, which I believe is more than fair, you still have a TS of 2000 for the rats alone... much more if they act with human IQ. Poor equipment, low-TL but fanatic, night, marine, recon and terrain adaptation(urban). Thats an absolute minimum for direct combat, and doesn't take into account the potential for sabotage and psychological warfare.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

If it wasn't limited to mammals, this would be a totally unfair curb-stomp. NYC is home to an estimated 1+ million pigeons, who-knows-how-many seagulls, and countless domesticated chickens kept illegally as a food supply or as already-trained fighting animals. As it is, this is already a logistical nightmare for the opposition. Every rat that isn't tasked with spying and disabling vehicles is directed toward consuming any and all food supplies? I'll be one of the first to flee across the George Washington bridge on foot (F#$%ing rats chewed through my brake lines!), if the dogs stationed there don't hamstring and eat me...

Also, the zoo won't be the only supply of large and exotic beasts, if she can detect as well as command them. They caught a guy keeping a fully-grown Bengal Tiger in his one-bedroom apartment in the Bronx a few years ago.

I'll second Wildbow's Worm as a source of ideas, if she can set the animals under her control to a task and then direct her attention elsewhere. If she needs to micromanage them, it won't be as useful but you might get something out of it, and it's a fun read that I'd recommend anyway.

[Dwarf99]

There is an article in Pyramid 3/77 that creates a "Combat Effectiveness Rating" based on what the entity has. I'd modify that (if you have it) as follows:

An individual Hero Element, or a group of 10 non-heroes uses 1/10th of CER to determine its TS. Anything with Combat Reflexes, Danger Sense, Unfazeable, Indomitable, or any Attribute or Secondary Characteristic over 15 counts as a Hero Element. Nameless Elite Troops aren’t Hero Elements, but their named NPC Captains are. The GM is free to determine other qualities that make an Elite Element.

Any Element that has an individual combat useful advantage worth more than 100 points is a Super-Soldier Element, and uses full CER as TS for each individual.

If you don't, I'm sorry.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

An individual Hero Element, or a group of 10 non-heroes uses 1/10th of CER to determine its TS. Anything with Combat Reflexes, Danger Sense, Unfazeable, Indomitable, or any Attribute or Secondary Characteristic over 15 counts as a Hero Element. Nameless Elite Troops aren’t Hero Elements, but their named NPC Captains are. The GM is free to determine other qualities that make an Elite Element.

Any Element that has an individual combat useful advantage worth more than 100 points is a Super-Soldier Element, and uses full CER as TS for each individual.

A brown rat swarm has about 50 rats in it, for a ROF bonus of +6. They roll to hit at DX 12, and generally do 1d-7 cut per hit (min 1 if they get through DR, due to it being cut). The swarm is Diffuse and has 60 HPs before it disperses.

The rat swarm thus has a CER of 84. Despite having Diffuse, I dont think Id count it as a Super-Soldier element. TS is thus 8.4 per swarm. You have 40k swarms roughly, and you might want to stack swarms into units...

At night, from ambush, that could get grizzly real quick.

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by chandley

Despite having Diffuse, I dont think Id count it as a Super-Soldier element. TS is thus 8.4 per swarm.

I'm inclined to agree. I'd accept this... although if it's only 1 hex, I might be inclined to say that's the number for 10 hexes instead since an element is typically 10 individuals who usually take up 1 hex.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

There is an article in Pyramid 3/77 that creates a "Combat Effectiveness Rating" based on what the entity has. I'd modify that (if you have it) as follows:

I actually wrote "Heroes on the Mass Scale" in Pyramid #3/84: Perspectives based on a similiar system as "It's a Threat!", but gear toward Mass Combat instead of Dungeon Fantasy. It's very specifically for creating hero elements, but some have used it to crete Mass Combat elements from character stats.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by chandley

A brown rat swarm has about 50 rats in it, for a ROF bonus of +6. They roll to hit at DX 12, and generally do 1d-7 cut per hit (min 1 if they get through DR, due to it being cut). The swarm is Diffuse and has 60 HPs before it disperses.

The rat swarm thus has a CER of 84. Despite having Diffuse, I dont think Id count it as a Super-Soldier element. TS is thus 8.4 per swarm. You have 40k swarms roughly, and you might want to stack swarms into units...

At night, from ambush, that could get grizzly real quick.

Written up Mass Combat Style:
Massive Rat Swarm(TL 0^): A 10 hex large swarm of brown rats, 50 rats to a hex. Useful skirmishers, they have TS 0 vs any element with any amount of Sealed DR. Count as Recon, Marine, Neutralize C3I, Night, Terrain (Urban). While immune to fear, they also disperse quickly, no modifier there. Replacements come from breeding or other habitats, but they still need to eat, hence the Maintain cost.

Element       TS    Class            WT    Mob    Raise    Maintain    TL
Rat Swarm     84    Rec, (C3I)      0.25   Foot    $0k      3k          0^

[Anthony]

The actual TS of the army is not spectacular, as they're basically TL 0 militia going up against TL 8 soldiers. The primary concern is that they're going to be behind the lines and causing logistics problems.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The actual TS of the army is not spectacular, as they're basically TL 0 militia going up against TL 8 soldiers. The primary concern is that they're going to be behind the lines and causing logistics problems.

Will they be attacking TL8 soldiers? Or, as already touched on upthread, TL8 civilians?