[Rules question] Dragon breath

[TJA]

Now, we had a game again.

Several questions popped up.
Maybe you have an idea about the answers?

2)
A dragon used his flaming breath to attack the players.
It was 20yd long and 1yd at it´s end.

Despite digging the rules, i was not sure if that is handled as a Melee attack, a ranged attack (like Innate Attack) or like an Area attack.
Can it miss? Would it use the Scatter rules?

Also, what about the damage?

I read, that this would be an Large Area Injury, so we used the average of the Torso DR and least armored bodypart.
But WHAT part?
The eyes? Do they count?
Or just the least armored classic bodypart (leg, arm, hand, foot, head)?
What about other hit locations?!?

We finally said, that this fire will enter the eye sockets and use (0 + Torso) / 2.

How do you handle this?
Is there an official rule from where to learn this?

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by TJA

Now, we had a game again.

Several questions popped up.
Maybe you have an idea about the answers?

2)
A dragon used his flaming breath to attack the players.
It was 20yd long and 1yd at it´s end.

Despite digging the rules, i was not sure if that is handled as a Melee attack, a ranged attack (like Innate Attack) or like an Area attack.
Can it miss? Would it use the Scatter rules?

I think Cones are considered ranged attacks (but your dragon's attack does not look like a Cone).

That said, it's not clear how Cone Attacks are supposed to work in GURPS and how you should calculate Scatter... AFAIK there is no answer by the RAW.

We finally said, that this fire will enter the eye sockets and use (0 + Torso) / 2.

How do you handle this?
Is there an official rule from where to learn this?

Another "hole" in the rules... personally I handle it the same way you did.

[TJA]

Originally Posted by Lupo

I think Cones are considered ranged attacks (but your dragon's attack does not look like a Cone).

That said, it's not clear how Cone Attacks are supposed to work in GURPS and how you should calculate Scatter... AFAIK there is no answer by the RAW.

Another "hole" in the rules... personally I handle it the same way you did.

I was fearing exactly that :-(

The breath attack i used came from GURPS Dragons, p146:
Burning Attack 3d (Cone, 1yd, +60%; Costs Fatigue, 2FP, -10%; Reduced Range, *1/5, -20%) [20]
This book is a 3E book with an 4E addon.

The rules from Dragon, p74 about Slavering Flame seemed too over the top for us (10d turns of 1d extra damage).
We also did not use the Igniting Fires rules - deciding that the armor protected enough against this.

Also, i now found that Scatter rules should be used for the target point.

We used Dodge and Drop to defend. But with 1yd wide, the defense mostly worked ... i did not use the broader cones about i already wrote earlier.

[TJA]

I read in 4E Basic for the following about Innate Attacks:
1/2D 10, Max 100
Applying the above Enhancements and Limitations, this gives: 1/2D 2 and Max 20.


Does that imply, that damage beyond 2yd is halved???
I mean, this seems to be true for missile attacks - i cannot rember a rules where this is clarified for Innate Attacks.

I seems to be needed - otherwise, the 1/2D would be useless ...

This again means, that dragons do not 3d of damage but about 1d+2 beyond 2yd.
:-O

Is that realy intended?!?!

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by TJA

I read in 4E Basic for the following about Innate Attacks:
1/2D 10, Max 100
Applying the above Enhancements and Limitations, this gives: 1/2D 2 and Max 20.

Base range *1/2 is not 2/20 but 5/50. Of course, Reduced Range is 1/5 at -20% (which does fit with your numbers).

The 1/2D rule is generic for anything that has a 1/2D attribute.

[Gudiomen]

"Cone" is just the name, you can have a "cone" with a 1-hex width at the end, just look at the enhancement.

Use rules for cone attacks, flamethrowers and jets... full-body-injury, reduced DR, etc...

You'll find that 3d and 3d/2 (you actually roll the 3d, then divide by 2 and round) are pretty good when your non-sealed armor has reduced efficiency. It'll also set fire to stuff around it, possibly your cape/hood/clothes, your shield, etc... heat from the flames, or the resulting stuff burning can quickly lead to a fiery scenario where you rapidly loose FP due to heat.

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by TJA

Does that imply, that damage beyond 2yd is halved???
I mean, this seems to be true for missile attacks - i cannot rember a rules where this is clarified for Innate Attacks.

I seems to be needed - otherwise, the 1/2D would be useless ...

This again means, that dragons do not 3d of damage but about 1d+2 beyond 2yd.
:-O

Is that realy intended?!?!

Most surely, it isn't. It simply shows that GURPS is so complex than even GURPS authors build creature stats "tentatively", e.g. in that case they probably forgot to write "Reduced Range (Max only), -10%" instead of "Reduced Range, -20%"

Also the whole "Cone" thing is quite fuzzy. It's not exactly clear which hexes get included in a Cone, nor what is the point of Cones so narrow that only a single line of hexes will be affected for most of its length...

[Gudiomen]

Originally Posted by Lupo

Also the whole "Cone" thing is quite fuzzy. It's not exactly clear which hexes get included in a Cone, nor what is the point of Cones so narrow that only a single line of hexes will be affected for most of its length...

Cone "width" is the final width at maximum range, make a triangle with that, it's not as intuitive as most enhancements that way.
The point of a single line of hexes cone is that you hit everything on the path, and you use cone rules (almost as good as area rules).

[Not another shrubbery]

Cones, as a type of area effect, do not have a 1/2D range. Realistic attacks will usually have the Dissipation limiter, but w/o that, the base damage applies to anyone within the area of the cone.

[transmetahuman]

Basic p. 413, Area and Spreading attacks. "Damage does not usually decline with distance." Then see the Dissipation section, and the associated limitation description. I'm not sure why that dragon breath description had a 1/2D stat. [Edit: I see that it didn't, in fact. I misread your post.] Basic could have been more explicit about it applying to cones, and what the "usually" refers to, I admit. Or maybe I missed that somewhere else.

"A cone requires a roll to hit..." "...otherwise, use the Scatter rule to determine a new target point. Once you know the target point, imagine a line between the attacker and that point. The cone spreads to either side of that line..."

"A cone affects everyone within its area, but anyone who is completely screened from the attacker by an object or person is behind cover..."

Eye slits count for Large Area Injury, so half of torso armor is usually correct for low-tech armor.