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Old 10-16-2020, 05:14 PM   #21
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Two quick questions about dragonets

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
... A thwarted dragonet could defend, though the person shifting is likely to be able to attack from side or rear, for a four die DX-2 or DX roll. To prevent these somewhat easy rolls requires all three non-front hexes to be filled with dragonets.
No, because the dragonets, when they move first, can choose not to be engaged by ground figures since they're flying, and can move so as to deny side/rear attacks, or even attacks altogether by moving out of range, or if there is room overhead, up.

I like Axly's suggestion that they engage from above, too.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:55 PM   #22
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Two quick questions about dragonets

Erasing my post suggesting Skarg misunderstood this or that, when in fact I was misunderstanding the context. Oops.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:18 PM   #23
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Two quick questions about dragonets

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
No, because the dragonets, when they move first, can choose not to be engaged by ground figures since they're flying, and can move so as to deny side/rear attacks, or even attacks altogether by moving out of range, or if there is room overhead, up.
Right, but this means that the battle has no attacks (barring unlikely missile or thrown attacks) for roughly half of the turns on average, 2/3 of the turns if the players have a tactician. Whenever the dragonets move first, they flutter away. When they move second, they attack. That's pretty dull.

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I like Axly's suggestion that they engage from above, too.
The central bit of Axly's suggestion is not that they engage from above. We all agree on that. Axly says that this engagement precludes shifting out of the hex.

Here are the three options as I see them (consequences only, not details):

(1) Under RAW plus the inferred rule that one must be able to attack to engage, a character may always shift away from a dragonet. Thus, if the character moves second, he may avoid attack whenever there is an empty adjacent hex.

(2) Under Axly's suggestion, if I understand correctly, a character may never shift out from under an engaging dragonet. Thus, whether or not the dragonet moved first, the player is subject to attack.

(3) Under my suggestion, a character may shift to an empty hex so long as there are not two dragonets in otherwise empty hexes adjacent to him. Thus, unless the dragonets are teaming up to keep the character in place, he can avoid being hit (without waiting to disengage).

My suggestion is that an adjacent dragonet in an empty hex may choose to engage. He cannot attack, of course, but he can restrict movement. Two of them doing so would put three in engagement with him, which means he can't shift to an empty hex (no matter which hexes the dragonets occupy around him).
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:59 PM   #24
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Two quick questions about dragonets

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Right, but this means that the battle has no attacks (barring unlikely missile or thrown attacks) for roughly half of the turns on average, 2/3 of the turns if the players have a tactician. Whenever the dragonets move first, they flutter away. When they move second, they attack. That's pretty dull.
That doesn't seem accurate to me, especially if the GM keeps the real-time pace moving. If no one has an action, the turn is over. Roll initiative. Move. Take whatever action, if any. Repeat.

Also, if the players are impatient, when they win initiative, they can decide to let the dragonets move second, and fight them.

Moreover, I think that situations where foes are at some sort of stalemate can become pretty tense, particularly if the noise may be drawing unwanted attention from who-knows-what else, and/or anything is going on where players want to get things done quickly.


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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The central bit of Axly's suggestion is not that they engage from above. We all agree on that. Axly says that this engagement precludes shifting out of the hex.
Yes. It seems to me that the point of Engagement is that if someone gets in reach of you for a melee attack, you can't cheese the I-Go, You-Go movement system by just moving away, because they'd get an opportunity to attack you. There are several ways to preserve that effect for the unique 0-range dragonets, such as:

1) Axly's suggestion the victim can't shift away.

2) My earlier suggestion that you could shift, but the dragonet would shift with you as you did.

3) You could use the common "you don't engage me" house rule, and say you can shift away, but if you do, your foe gets to attack you as you do, and change facing to react to your shift.
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