Gamma World

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

I saw some of it when it first came out and was appalled at the execution. But the concept is good, and justifies a diverse set of NPCs since they could be from completely different cultures.

Agreed, and the setting would be great for either a long or short campaign with either Gurps or 3rd Edition Gama World rules.

I love the wacky mutant generation system .

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by beetle496

I am starting my planning for a MA deck for novice players. Soon enough they will figure out that the world has walls. In the meantime, I need a campaign setting that fits in a pocket universe of about 25x50 miles, allows players a choice for a variety of class/race paradigms, and could have a stable economy for ~300 years. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Remember to use the strangeness of the space they campaign is set in. Downstairs can be a foreign country, upstairs can be an unexplored frontier. Maybe the bathrooms are nicer in the far wilderness. Claustrophobia isn't likely to be a thing, but agoraphobia is highly probable.

[beetle496]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

I love the wacky mutant generation system.

Meh. I would rather use GURPS. But I use the GW/MA tables for inspiration!

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Remember to use the strangeness of the space they campaign is set in.

For sure. I am planning that each deck is an O’Neil Cylinder. So not only does the “known world” have walls (unscaleable mountains N and S), walking due E (or W) for ~50 miles returns one to the place you started. Also the days are long, there are no seasons, and no stars. The “Sun” is a line, not a circle, does not rise nor set, but only fades to moonlight. Of course, all this is normal for inhabitants, so hopefully the players probably won’t think to ask the last set of details right away.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by beetle496

For sure. I am planning that each deck is an O’Neil Cylinder. So not only does the “known world” have walls (unscaleable mountains N and S), walking due E (or W) for ~50 miles returns one to the place you started. Also the days are long, there are no seasons, and no stars. The “Sun” is a line, not a circle, does not rise nor set, but only fades to moonlight. Of course, all this is normal for inhabitants, so hopefully the players probably won’t think to ask the last set of details right away.

Avoid saying "sun" or "moon" and using words like "rising" or "setting".

Frex: "The day grows brighter as the morning proceeds" or "you step out of the house into the bright daylight" or "as afternoon wends into evening daylight gives way to the dimn twilight* of night".

Describe the area as "bordered by mountains obstructing every path out" (or some such). This description is not a lie, though it is circumspect.


* This one may be cheating, but most Players probably don't know twilight's technical definition... if they do...well...

[evileeyore]

Avoid, or be careful, correcting the Players when they make terminology mistakes, for instance:

If they say "Based on the sun's height, what time is it?" don't mention there is no sun, instead say "It's probably [time], it's about that bright out*".

If they say "we're heading west to the mountains" and there are no mountains to the 'west' (being a cylinder), just reply with "Are you heading to [NAME] pass or [OTHER NAME] pass*, or to the 'uncrossable' section?" Or some such.


How are you going to handle the 'looping' nature of the cylinder? Just quietly hope no asks 'what's in [direction]?' Is the entire concept "your people have always lived in the valley between the impassable mountains and no longer question the will of the Gods"?

A decent way would be to remain cheekily circumspect, if there are multiple small villages in the section, saying "it's fastest to get to [village 2] by heading [direction], and then to [village 3] from there, then home from [village 3], than to go from [2] to home and then over to [3]" your Players may immediately think the villages lay in some sort of triangular fashion to one another rather than strung around a cylinder.

Do you have 'magnetism' in this world (ie compasses) or do your villagers just happily not worry about directions (in which case saying things like "No, your Character doesn't have a concept of 'west', 'east', 'north', or 'south, your people say [village name]wise to refer to things in the direction of that village, [village name]wise for that direction, and [Dark Coloured Mountain] and [Lighter Coloured Mountain] for things in those directions".




* If there are 'passable' areas well known for climbing to the portal for the next section that is.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

* This one may be cheating, but most Players probably don't know twilight's technical definition... if they do...well...

Evileyeore, that noble font of inspiration, just gave me an evil idea of true brilliance. It might be the case that the PCs have no familiarity with full total darkness. A corridor with no lights might be a greater horror than any of the people of their community have ever faced before.

[Astromancer]

In a cylinder that spins to create "gravity," you might be used to seeing the further away villages up in the sky. "Walk until you are in the sky." could be a completely normal sort of thing to say.

[beetle496]

Those are all great tips @evileeyore!

Originally Posted by evileeyore

If they say "Based on the sun's height, what time is it?" don't mention there is no sun, instead say "It's probably [time], it's about that bright out*".

I think the natives would call the bright light in the sky “the Sun”. Once it is dark, the illumination comes from the same place, but now the “sun” is only giving out relatively dim moonlight, and is colloquially called “the Moon”. There are no stars, and I do not think the natives would have that word. I don’t mind telling the players that they do not see any stars among the moonlight. I don’t plan to mention that the word “stars” is not in the characters vocabulary!

If they say "we're heading west to the mountains" and there are no mountains to the 'west' (being a cylinder), just reply with "Are you heading to [NAME] pass or [OTHER NAME] pass*, or to the 'uncrossable' section?" Or some such.

That’s good too, but I think I will be using N/S/E/W as I plan to provide a map of the known world. I think it will become apparent pretty quickly that the map wraps N to S. One more detail that the characters think too obvious to be worth mentioning to the players!

How are you going to handle the 'looping' nature of the cylinder? Just quietly hope no asks 'what's in [direction]?' Is the entire concept "your people have always lived in the valley between the impassable mountains and no longer question the will of the Gods"?

Yes, the concept is that the people have lived on the plain (it does not feel like a valley, even thought the land rises ahead and behind you) between the impassible mountains since the Great Dark ~400 years ago. That N would wrap to S is perfectly natural, so no need to avoid questioning the will of the Gods! There would be creation myths of course, and King James versions of the Bible might be one of the few print materials at the time of the Great Dark. Genesis describes their world about as well as ours!

A decent way would be to remain cheekily circumspect, if there are multiple small villages in the section, saying "it's fastest to get to [village 2] by heading [direction], and then to [village 3] from there, then home from [village 3], than to go from [2] to home and then over to [3]" your Players may immediately think the villages lay in some sort of triangular fashion to one another rather than strung around a cylinder.

I like that.

Do you have 'magnetism' in this world (ie compasses)…

I think there would be. From outside the spaceship, I figure magnetic north lies in the direction of travel, tangential to spin of the cylinder. Right-hand rule? But for the sake of convenience, N will be towards the top of whatever paper maps I use! In any case, the spin would create a noticeable Coriolis which would negate the need for a compass.

…or do your villagers just happily not worry about directions (in which case saying things like "No, your Character doesn't have a concept of 'west', 'east', 'north', or 'south'…

I hope not to give hints like that. I think there would also be a strongish wind (not unlike we have the prevailing westerlies in the norther hemisphere) that almost always tells E from W. If the starting territory is an island, there is a strong current from N to S. If the starting territory is land, I might add a river that perpetually runs from N to S.

If there are 'passable' areas well known for climbing to the portal for the next section that is.

I think that there would have be an elevator (hidden, obviously) from ground, along the wall, to the middle of the sky. The cylinder has a circumference of 50 miles (width of 25 miles) so that makes the middle of the sky 8 miles up a sheer rock wall. By comparison, Mount Everest is “only” 5.5 miles high.

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Evileyeore, that noble font of inspiration, just gave me an evil idea of true brilliance. It might be the case that the PCs have no familiarity with full total darkness. A corridor with no lights might be a greater horror than any of the people of their community have ever faced before.

I was thinking about that. Definitely worth a fright check the first time the characters experience that! I think there is a famous Sci-Fi short story on that theme.

Originally Posted by Astromancer

In a cylinder that spins to create "gravity," you might be used to seeing the further away villages up in the sky. "Walk until you are in the sky." could be a completely normal sort of thing to say.

The curvature of the earth would definitely be visible, but not something you would feel, and at no point would it be your perspective that you are “in the sky”. But probably “walk until [LANDMARK] is in the sky” would be a thing?

I am visualizing a long tubular light source (the “sun”) running the 25 mile length down the center of the cylinder. The glare would make it hard to see the 16 miles across to the other side, but at night (under moonlight) the other side would be visible. There are other ways to light an O’Neil Cylinder, but it would be convenient for there to be an elevator through the “sun” to connect the cylinders!

[Astromancer]

Beetle-496, you told me where they see the stars. They're the lights of the villages on the other side of the cylinder. At night these could be visible. The small lights of the night sky. As the patterns would be stable there would be constellations too.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by beetle496

I don’t plan to mention that the word “stars” is not in the characters vocabulary!

I would. Or rather make it part of the creation myth is that the Gods took away the stars. Then the Players will never question it.

I hope not to give hints like that.

I see it as less 'hints' and more "The People have never left the valley. There are stories of those who did, and they were never seen again. To travel beyond the mountains is unthinkable."

You could easily replace Cardinal Direction words with "windward, leeward, dark mountain, light mountain'.

Then just describe when they travel from village 1 to 2 to 3 to 1 as "you leave the village wind/leeward and make your way to the next village" at least once and wait to see if anyone notices.

If the starting territory is an island, there is a strong current from N to S. If the starting territory is land, I might add a river that perpetually runs from N to S.

An island might work... in fact you could be cheekily mysterious and vague the first few times the PCs sail windward and find themselves wrapping right round to the other side of the island. And if there are more than one island (that aren't in perfect rows, but in small clumps), it becomes a bit harder to determine they are wrapping immediately.

If the distances are just large enough there would be clouds, and the 'sun' and 'moon' might be permanently occluded behind them. See Erik the Viking for a take on a completely cloud shrouded land (the vikings in the movie believe that Fenrir swallowed the sun, which is why they have not seen it in anyone's lifetime)...

The curvature of the earth would definitely be visible, but not something you would feel, and at no point would it be your perspective that you are “in the sky”. But probably “walk until [LANDMARK] is in the sky” would be a thing?

With enough distance, airborne haze would be a factor (if not weather), meaning an 'endless' plain would fade off looking like it rises to the horizon, as though one were in a gently sloping valley... with islands, it might not even really be noticeable to the inhabitants...