Azoth-8

[acrosome]

Without the Vietnam War and the resulting counterculture, would all of those social advancements really be MORE advanced on Azoth-8? I would assume that (American) society stays more conservative, if anything. Even if some of those movements were nascent before the war, they certainly wouldn't have gotten as much traction without it.

But I guess that wasn't the design goal. You wanted go-go boots among the stars, right? :)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by acrosome

Without the Vietnam War and the resulting counterculture, would all of those social advancements really be MORE advanced on Azoth-8?

I would asume yes. It's hard times and anxiety that bring conservatism and retrenchment. Progressivism flourishes durign prosperity and easier times. No Cold War and no Vietnam means much easier times in the US.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I would asume yes. It's hard times and anxiety that bring conservatism and retrenchment. Progressivism flourishes durign prosperity and easier times. No Cold War and no Vietnam means much easier times in the US.

Fred has it right. Most of the movements we think of as being from the Sixties generally have roots in late 19th century Bohemianism. With the far greater prosperity, and the simple fact that the Cold War was far less important in this world, this world is slightly advanced of where things were in our 1970. With fewer reasons for reaction and fear, much of that social progress should continue.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Fred has it right. Most of the movements we think of as being from the Sixties generally have roots in late 19th century Bohemianism. With the far greater prosperity, and the simple fact that the Cold War was far less important in this world, this world is slightly advanced of where things were in our 1970. With fewer reasons for reaction and fear, much of that social progress should continue.

Moreover, the societal changes had already begun, a decade before we got pulled so deeply into the SE Asian quagmire.

The Civil Rights Act of 1957 had roots the extended back to the 1930s (at least), and the disruption of WWII, and the many examples of valuable service provided by people of all ethnicities. For instance, the Supreme Court decision in the case Smith v. Allwright that ended white-only primaries took place in 1944.

Resistance to the 1957 Act by reactionaries triggered the first mass demonstrations. The 1964 Act took place to correct the shortcomings of the 1957 Act, stomp state legislation that supported segregation and Jim Crow, and generally gut the legal underpinnings of segregationist culture.

The mass demonstrations against the war in Vietnam took cues from, and built upon, a lot of unrest already under way.

[Astromancer]

Agreed. I think it was the combination of a secure prosperity and the consciousness raising effects of Unions, however warped by political compromise, that got so much of White America to accept the changes. Greater prosperity with more unions and stability should have moved things a bit further on.

[adm]

Probably the biggest change would that you still need to be 21 to vote.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by adm

Probably the biggest change would that you still need to be 21 to vote.

Highly probable. The details on who succeeds the US President in a crisis would be less worked out too. Social services would be more like the European norm, but many mechanisms and rules of government would be more like the fifties. It would seem modern socially with odd touches of anachronism.

[Astromancer]

To give a better fuller answer here, this world would be more like the early 20th century in several important ways.

First, the idea that science is an inherently ennobling activity would still be around. The events on Endymion (the planet circling Tau Ceti mentioned on page three of this thread) might change that as the Cold War and Atomic Jitters did, but as of yet, science is seen as a good thing. Mad/Evil Scientists are in cheap melodramas and horror films.

Second, optimism isn't seen as stupid. The Cold War following the horrors of the Second World War so quickly, then the Energy Crisis, the Population Crisis, and the Pollution Crisis, and the economic miseries of the seventies, made optimism seem either stupid or fascist for a brutal long time.

Third, magic is real in this world. We may not have "the Answers" but the world isn't dead and lifeless. Plus the path to the stars is open. Wonder provably will never cease.

All of these make a vastly different world to live in.

[Astromancer]

The 1960's were a transitional period in the Maghreb, the cultural world touched in films like Pépé le Moko and Casablanca or the stories of Paul Bowels was real alive and vital. By 1970 the beginnings of the present day cultural norms of North Africa and Western Asia began to show up.

In Azoth-8 the oil money that sped the transition isn't anything as much of a factor. Although the collapse of Algerian independence would be. Still, this area is behind the curve in this reality and is far more like the wonderland Paul Bowels dreamed it to be (although he certainly romanticisted the whole region). Both from the occult qualities of this world, and from the Super Spy angle (didn't every super spy show have an Arabian themed episode?) this region would be gift the the GM.

[dcarson]

Without a large reactionary movement the civil rights movement might not have as many laws since they are not needed to change things. So a restaurant or other business might still be able to do "whites only" and just suffer the social problems from a society that that is unacceptable in. So a handful of places that who's customers are socially outsiders.