11-07-2014, 07:23 AM | #41 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
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I would worry more about the -3 racial penalty to IQ an Ogre has.
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11-07-2014, 07:25 AM | #42 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
They really should've kept the inconvenient size disadvantage from 3rd.
SM+1 is a huge problem, while SM+3 isn't much worse than SM+2.
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11-07-2014, 07:27 AM | #43 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
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It's like how cannot wear armor gives more points the less problem it causes.
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11-07-2014, 07:35 AM | #44 |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
Not getting a bonus is not the same as getting a penalty. And some concepts are more difficult to build than others. What if it's a scholar that never gets into fights - should he get a bonus because he doesn't get a combat penalty?
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11-07-2014, 08:06 AM | #45 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
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The fact is that positive SM's negative aspects are supposed to be covered by the highly varied price reduction to increased strength. When SM problems are the same for all character concepts, not merely the strong who get more point breaks.
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11-07-2014, 08:39 AM | #46 | ||||||||||||||
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
That's fair.
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Unusual background is bad. It's only legitimate when it indicates abilities that do things like punch above their weight because no one expects them. Quote:
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SM is not volume. Because it is unavoidable. Either you do it beforehand, you do it upon being queried by players or the players do it for you and throw away some efficacy in order to not be jerks. Quote:
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And yes pricing absolute points values are hard. Game design is hard. No disrespect to the authors of gurps but they are mortals just as you and I and they had to price absolute points values in wildly different situations and the resultant game system hasn't totally flipped out. It's hard and it's possible and making something better is good even if you can't make it perfect. Quote:
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And yeah, gurps doesn't reimburse you for ineffective character design. If you build the best kicker in the world whose mind got moved into the body without legs.. well that's just too bad. In obvious situations of lost utility there is room for gm niceness but it generally assumes effective character design. I think we can do better than changing base ST by SM. Remember more atomization, not less. Last edited by Sindri; 11-07-2014 at 08:56 AM. |
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11-07-2014, 09:01 AM | #47 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
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11-07-2014, 09:11 AM | #48 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
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11-07-2014, 09:27 AM | #49 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
I've updated and cleaned up my mass and volume system. I'll take some of the lessons from there to tackle SM.
As I outlined previously in the thread, most of the effects of SM work out to be Features. The exceptions are Consumption (which should be handled on a case-by-case basis - an SM+5 dragon and SM-2 halfling each needing to eat as much per day as an SM+0 human may be perfectly appropriate), mass-based grappling effects, and weight/cost of gear. I'm ignoring the wounding modifier houserules here, which result in [+24] to the worth of each level of positive SM, [-24] to the worth of each level of negative SM. SM+1 means, on average, x3.4 to body weight and x2 to weight/cost of gear. The former is worth around [9], the latter is worth [-20]. Thus, SM+1 is worth [-11]. SM+2 means, on average, x8 to body weight and x5 to weight/cost of gear. The former is worth around [19], the latter is worth around [-61]. Thus, SM+2 is worth [-42]. SM+3 means, on average, x27 to body weight and x10 to weight/cost of gear. The former is worth around [42], the latter is worth around [-108]. Thus, SM+3 is worth [-66]. This means, for the 10%/SM discount on ST to be "worth it," an SM+1 character needs ST 21, and SM+2 character needs ST 31, and an SM+3 character needs ST 32. On the other side of things, SM-2 is x1/8 to body weight and x1/5 to weight/cost of gear. The former is worth around [-6], the latter is worth around [28]. Thus, SM-2 is worth [22] - you'll need to drop to around ST 8 or so to offset it. Personally, I prefer to dispense with the ST discount hack and just have SM as a trait that costs points (positive or negative, depending on how you work things out). |
11-07-2014, 09:34 AM | #50 | |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
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Re: Balancing High Size Modifier
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Tags |
balance, brainstorm, house rules, size modifier, strength |
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