GURPS Mage the Awakening

[Dark Archon]

Originally Posted by 4rc4num

RPM is a much much better magic system than Awakening and Ascension together, plus it is clearly inspired in Ars Magica (the same rpg that inspired Ascension rules).

Both aren't the systems I want to convert and/or play.

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Threshold magic might work well. Over stepping leads to Paradox.

Reaching represents overstepping your skill - trying to do something you aren't able to do correctly yet. It won't work with Threshold magic, because if you aren't overreaching, you can cast your spells forever without any problems.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I concur with the others about not worrying about too much fidelity to the source rules. Down that road lies madness. :-)

I understand, but frankly, advice to "just use RPM/Realm magic as written" pisses me off. I want to convert system and have something what plays and feels close to the original which I love, not just to play another system.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Second, I'd just adapt the Reach mechanic pretty much straight across from MtA: you start with a free Reach for any spell, and each level you have in the Realm above what you need to cast the spell gives another free Reach. Using a Reach changes the parameters of the spell, as per normal.

Good idea, but Reaches in MtAw 2e doesn't change the spell quantitatively, they change it qualitatively, they won't just "change the parameters". Just compare Standard and Advanced tables in MtAw 2e, they represent whole another level of spellcasting.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

The rules for Reactive Reality (Thaumatology, pp. 193-194) model Paradox pretty well too - just give a die of Distortion Points for every reach past the free one.

They... aren't, really. In MtAw 2e, overreaching gives you Paradox dice, you roll it and count the successes, but you can get lucky and not recieve a single success. Giving dice of Distortion Points would mean you won't be lucky ever - gaining Paradox means you will get some Distortion Points.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I don't think it hurts the flavor of the magic

It hurt the feeling of this magic. Awakening magic doesn't react wildly in it's results - you either get what you wanted, or you don't get it at all.

[dataweaver]

Thaumatology includes advice for Syntactic Magic involving cost vs. skill penalties vs. margin of success. In particular, you can take Realm Magic, then declare that the energy costs it dictates instead manifest as skill penalties to the Realm skills (e.g., a 3-point energy cost instead manifests as a -3 penalty). That eliminates the energy costs for most purposes, and lets you reintroduce them in more acceptable ways such as the cost mandated for improvising with Common or Inferior Realms instead of Ruling Realms.

None of the mechanisms currently in print cover the way Paradox works in Awakening; the closest you get is Reactive Reality, and that's based off of Ascension's Paradox mechanics. Fortunately, translating Awakening's Reaching and Paradox mechanics is straightforward.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Dark Archon

I understand, but frankly, advice to "just use RPM/Realm magic as written" pisses me off. I want to convert system and have something what plays and feels close to the original which I love, not just to play another system.

Note that I wasn't suggesting playing it "as written". Tweaking to be a better fit is fine! I'm just suggesting not to get too focused on making it a perfect fit. Accept that there are some rules that will be different, and that a perfect conversion is probably not necessary for fidelity of experience.

For instance:

Originally Posted by Dark Archon

It hurt the feeling of this magic. Awakening magic doesn't react wildly in it's results - you either get what you wanted, or you don't get it at all.

I would disagree that this hurts the feeling of Awakening magic. If basic success gets the effect you want, and then there's a gradation between that and the "exceptional success" level, why does that hurt the feeling? For example, say you cast a spell to fill an area the size of a small room with fire. On a basic success, you'd get the effect you took the penalty for. In Awakening, if you got an exceptional success, you could bump up the area to advanced scale, and fill a whole parking lot. Does it really hurt the flavor if, in GURPS, you succeed by 4 and can push the area of the spell up just a bit, to, say, "large room" size? It's still qualitatively distinct from the size jump you'd get on a critical success, it just allows for some shading.

Originally Posted by Dark Archon

Good idea, but Reaches in MtAw 2e doesn't change the spell quantitatively, they change it qualitatively, they won't just "change the parameters".

I'm aware of this, and it's precisely what I'm suggesting. For example, you could create separate sets of penalties for "Scale" and "Advanced Scale", and by spending a Reach, you'd use the more-favorable Advanced Scale numbers.

Originally Posted by Dark Archon

They... aren't, really. In MtAw 2e, overreaching gives you Paradox dice, you roll it and count the successes, but you can get lucky and not recieve a single success.

This is easily tweakable by making the paradox die roll be something like 1d-1, or an even higher penalty. I don't want to run the extensive probability math, but a naive assumption would be that 1d-4 would produce about the right results - a Paradox die has a roughly 30% chance of coming up a success, and 1d-4 has roughly 30% chance of generating a distortion point. Adjusting the severity of the Distortion Points might be necessary as well, here, if the chance of getting any at all is lowered.
Note, however, that Distortion Points don't automatically trigger a Distortion Crisis anyway, and it's Distortion Crises that are really closer to a success on a Paradox roll in Awakening.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Dark Archon

...
Reaching represents overstepping your skill - trying to do something you aren't able to do correctly yet. It won't work with Threshold magic, because if you aren't overreaching, you can cast your spells forever without any problems.
...

Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood the feeling wanted. I thought magic was always a little bit risky in Mage. At least it was back when I played 1st ed.

[dataweaver]

Yeah; in the newest edition, Paradox only happens when the mage attempts to push past her usual limits: stuff that would have required extra dots in earlier editions (such as granting Sight to others) now require Reach; and if you Reach too far, you generate Paradox.

As well, that Paradox can manifest in two ways: the mage can choose to internalize it (in which case he risks bad things happening to him), or he can release it (in which case he's OK, but whatever's around him takes a hit).

[dataweaver]

OK: here's how I'd do the character sheet part of this. I'd start with Realm magic, but then I'd modify it heavily. First, they're called “Arcana”, not “Realms”. This isn't just being pedantic; to the Awakened, Realms have a specific meaning that's related to Arcana but distinct from them.

Second, there is no Magery. Access to the Arcana of Awakened Magic requires Awareness (Supernal Realm). This Advantage gives you what the Awakened refer to as “Mage Sight”. It also allows you to buy Arcana, starting with your Realm's Ruling Arcana. There are some limits: until you have five levels in your highest Arcanum, your next-highest Arcanum is limited to one level below it; your third-highest is limited to one level below your second-highest, and so on. It's specialized to one of the five Supernal Realms, each of which defines two Ruling Arcana and one Inferior Arcanum.

Third: each Arcanum has a skill associated with it, as per Realm Magic. It's an IQ-based skill (because Awakened magic involves the mental exercise of crafting an Imago), and is Average for your Ruling Arcana, Hard for your Common Arcana, and Very Hard for your Inferior Arcanum. It's capped to 10 + 2 × levels in the associated Arcanum advantage. You can also develop Techniques corresponding to individual spells, called praxes.

Fourth, each level in an Arcanum provides a new capability or two:

Level 1: Countermagic, Supernal Summons
Level 2: Mage Armor, Lesser Utility
Level 3: Targeted Supernal Summons
Level 4: Greater Utility
Level 5: Create Rote

A mage can also acquire one (and only one) Legacy, taking an Unusual Background to represent it. A Legacy has a Primary Arcanum that gives several benefits:

• If the Arcanum was Inferior or Common for the mage, it's now treated as Ruling.
• If the Arcanum was already Ruling, its associate skill is now treated as Easy instead of Average.
• The Legacy grants access to a Power based on the Legacy's concept. The Primary Arcanum doubles as its Power Talent, and the individual Abilities that can be developed are called Attainments. In the original game, the Attainments are arranged in a five-step chain, corresponding to the five levels of the Legacy's Arcanum; I'd be inclined to relax that restriction here.

Note that I made no mention of Gnosis. One of my goals here was to see if I could manage without a “power stat”.