Some questions about powers, settings and races

kdarc · 02-15-2012, 05:56 AM

So I'm designing races for my upcoming fantasy game, in which I will try my hands on the Powers system for magic. I have the basics pretty much down - there are several "schools" of magic, and they range from general ones used across the world (such as Healing) and more specific ones (like "Dark Arts of Zuun-Thurakkaz" or something like that). It works pretty well this far, but I have two questions:

1. I am wondering about energy cost. In my previous fantasy game I used Threshold Magic from Thaumatology and it worked out pretty well. I can emulate something like that, but I'm thinking about using the Energy Reserve rules instead, but what would be an appropriate number then? I'm still rather green about Powers, so if anyone have some advice, that would be great.
2. I'm creating a race of lizardmen with a somewhat natural affinity for magic in general. In a spell system, I could simply grant them Magery 0 and it would make sense, but I'm going with Powers this time. I could grant them an innate Talent, but that would be for just one set then. Any ideas how to model this?

Thanks in advance! kdarc out

Refplace · 02-15-2012, 07:30 AM

Lot of threads here on Magic as Powers.
As for the ER it really depends on how much FP you have the powers cost.

Captain Joy · 02-15-2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdarc

...I'm thinking about using the Energy Reserve rules instead, but what would be an appropriate number then?

A value too low is probably better than too high, in the sense that increasing this value later on will likey be easier than having to decrease it.

As for what the value should be, I would figure out how much energy it would cost to cast certain important spells first, the chose an Energy Reserve value that coincides with how easy/likey I want it to be to cast those spells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdarc

I'm creating a race of lizardmen with a somewhat natural affinity for magic in general. In a spell system, I could simply grant them Magery 0 and it would make sense, but I'm going with Powers this time. I could grant them an innate Talent, but that would be for just one set then. Any ideas how to model this?

No reason you can't still use Magery, with some tweaks to make it fit with Powers. Or, maybe lizard men have higher Energy Reserves than most.

kdarc · 02-15-2012, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

A value too low is probably better than too high, in the sense that increasing this value later on will likey be easier than having to decrease it.

As for what the value should be, I would figure out how much energy it would cost to cast certain important spells first, the chose an Energy Reserve value that coincides with how easy/likey I want it to be to cast those spells.

No reason you can't still use Magery, with some tweaks to make it fit with Powers. Or, maybe lizard men have higher Energy Reserves than most.

Working it the mathemathical way seems to be the way to go. Also, checking out some of the other threads on powers now!

I was actually just looking into that - the question is just exactly how. If we go for Magery working as it does with spells (and as suggested on p. 131 in Powers), it would make sense. However, it would then become the only "Talent" that mages would buy. My framework is that different "styles" of magic have their own Talent to compliment them, but if Magery adds to all Magical abilities anyway, it would just make sense for them to simply buy Magery instead. So that's really my current problem.

Phantasm · 02-15-2012, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdarc

Working it the mathemathical way seems to be the way to go. Also, checking out some of the other threads on powers now!

I was actually just looking into that - the question is just exactly how. If we go for Magery working as it does with spells (and as suggested on p. 131 in Powers), it would make sense. However, it would then become the only "Talent" that mages would buy. My framework is that different "styles" of magic have their own Talent to compliment them, but if Magery adds to all Magical abilities anyway, it would just make sense for them to simply buy Magery instead. So that's really my current problem.

Suggestion: Keep Magery 0 as-is, forbid the higher levels of Magery, and have different Talents for various schools/styles of magic.

I think this'll do what you're looking for

kdarc · 02-15-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

Suggestion: Keep Magery 0 as-is, forbid the higher levels of Magery, and have different Talents for various schools/styles of magic.

I think this'll do what you're looking for

That would make sense - so Magery 0 grants "access" to Magical abilties and use of magic items, but Magery cannot improve abitilies further. For that, they would need to buy the relevant Talent. Something like that, yes?

Phantasm · 02-15-2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdarc

That would make sense - so Magery 0 grants "access" to Magical abilties and use of magic items, but Magery cannot improve abitilies further. For that, they would need to buy the relevant Talent. Something like that, yes?

That's the idea, yes.

Good luck!

kdarc · 02-15-2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

That's the idea, yes.

Good luck!

Thanks! And thanks for the assistance!

BaHalus · 02-15-2012, 08:40 AM

maybe magery 1 just for the lizards, only in the template, as a racial thing?

Anaraxes · 02-15-2012, 08:45 AM

That turns Magery into an Unusual Background cost for magic. Do you really want to charge mages extra points beyond what their powers cost? And if so, why?

The usual reason for a UB surcharge is that magic is so scarce as to be unheard of, or unbelievable, like a mage on modern-day Earth. As a result, no one will expect anyone to use magic. No one will have magical defenses; banks will even help you teleport in and out of their vaults by wiring them with CCTV for you. No one will start looking for mages when weird things happen. And so on. In such a setting, magic is more powerful than the "typical" setting assumed when point costs were being juggled, and so maybe there's a reason for a UB.

In the typical fantasy game, where everyone knows that magic exists and mages are, if not common, at least not freakishly rare, there wouldn't be a UB charge just to be able to buy magical Advantages, any more than there's a UB to be allowed to buy combat or social skills. UB is supposed to be a catch-all bucket for the undefined benefits specific to a particular setting. So in this setting, what extra benefits do mages get?

But back to the main topic: if you don't want a Talent for all magic, but instead want talents for specific schools of magic, why have Magery at all? Just don't have a Talent for all magic (which is largely what Magery is in 4e).

The other benefit of Magery is sensitivity to magic. So you may instead want to require mages to have a Detect (Magic) ability.

As for the size of the ER, recall that most abilities don't require FP to use at all by default. If you want a mana-point system like the skill-based Magic, then you probably want to require Costs FP on all abilities built on the Magic power source. If the typical ability costs one or two FP, like the typical skill-spell, then you probably want an ER about the same size as the Fatigue pool (10-15). If you want an effect more like Threshold magic, then you want a big ER with a slower recharge, so mages can blow the ER on big, expensive effects, and then have to sit around recovering for a while. (Note that burning up an ER doesn't make you physically tired the way burning up your FP does. "Recovery" here is just in magical terms.)

You might want to require other limitations or enhancements for that source, too, like words and gestures. Whatever makes it seem like "magic" to you. All the example power mods were designed to be -10% because that meant you could swap all the abilities around between sources without recalculating costs. But there's no fundamental reason that a power mod has to be -10%.

02-15-2012, 05:56 AM	#1
kdarc Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Aarhus, Denmark	Some questions about powers, settings and races So I'm designing races for my upcoming fantasy game, in which I will try my hands on the Powers system for magic. I have the basics pretty much down - there are several "schools" of magic, and they range from general ones used across the world (such as Healing) and more specific ones (like "Dark Arts of Zuun-Thurakkaz" or something like that). It works pretty well this far, but I have two questions: 1. I am wondering about energy cost. In my previous fantasy game I used Threshold Magic from Thaumatology and it worked out pretty well. I can emulate something like that, but I'm thinking about using the Energy Reserve rules instead, but what would be an appropriate number then? I'm still rather green about Powers, so if anyone have some advice, that would be great. 2. I'm creating a race of lizardmen with a somewhat natural affinity for magic in general. In a spell system, I could simply grant them Magery 0 and it would make sense, but I'm going with Powers this time. I could grant them an innate Talent, but that would be for just one set then. Any ideas how to model this? Thanks in advance! kdarc out

02-15-2012, 07:30 AM	#2
Refplace Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Yukon, OK	Re: Some questions about powers, settings and races Lot of threads here on Magic as Powers. As for the ER it really depends on how much FP you have the powers cost.

02-15-2012, 08:40 AM	#9
BaHalus Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Belém, Pará, Amazônia, Brasil.	Re: Some questions about powers, settings and races maybe magery 1 just for the lizards, only in the template, as a racial thing?

02-15-2012, 08:45 AM	#10
Anaraxes Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: Some questions about powers, settings and races That turns Magery into an Unusual Background cost for magic. Do you really want to charge mages extra points beyond what their powers cost? And if so, why? The usual reason for a UB surcharge is that magic is so scarce as to be unheard of, or unbelievable, like a mage on modern-day Earth. As a result, no one will expect anyone to use magic. No one will have magical defenses; banks will even help you teleport in and out of their vaults by wiring them with CCTV for you. No one will start looking for mages when weird things happen. And so on. In such a setting, magic is more powerful than the "typical" setting assumed when point costs were being juggled, and so maybe there's a reason for a UB. In the typical fantasy game, where everyone knows that magic exists and mages are, if not common, at least not freakishly rare, there wouldn't be a UB charge just to be able to buy magical Advantages, any more than there's a UB to be allowed to buy combat or social skills. UB is supposed to be a catch-all bucket for the undefined benefits specific to a particular setting. So in this setting, what extra benefits do mages get? But back to the main topic: if you don't want a Talent for all magic, but instead want talents for specific schools of magic, why have Magery at all? Just don't have a Talent for all magic (which is largely what Magery is in 4e). The other benefit of Magery is sensitivity to magic. So you may instead want to require mages to have a Detect (Magic) ability. As for the size of the ER, recall that most abilities don't require FP to use at all by default. If you want a mana-point system like the skill-based Magic, then you probably want to require Costs FP on all abilities built on the Magic power source. If the typical ability costs one or two FP, like the typical skill-spell, then you probably want an ER about the same size as the Fatigue pool (10-15). If you want an effect more like Threshold magic, then you want a big ER with a slower recharge, so mages can blow the ER on big, expensive effects, and then have to sit around recovering for a while. (Note that burning up an ER doesn't make you physically tired the way burning up your FP does. "Recovery" here is just in magical terms.) You might want to require other limitations or enhancements for that source, too, like words and gestures. Whatever makes it seem like "magic" to you. All the example power mods were designed to be -10% because that meant you could swap all the abilities around between sources without recalculating costs. But there's no fundamental reason that a power mod has to be -10%.