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Old 09-19-2016, 02:50 PM   #61
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I don't think there is a problem. I would like a book or article about these topics for Dungeon Fantasy.
Now that I think about it, I also would like a book covering these topics for Dungeon Fantasy specifically. A book better than a Pyramid article, which most likely would fall short of space. Or alternatively a series of articles.

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I just don't think that book would be the same book as the one that would address these topics in a more mainline GURPS way, as Refplace suggests.
By the way, I don't know why you seem to think the contrary, but I never said that such book should be the same than one for the generic approach of GURPS, and indeed I can't imagine how that would be possible to address.

Also, Refplace has pointed in the first place to the prejudice against Dungeon Fantasy:

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Kingdom building rules on a few peoples wish list.
But lets not limit them to DF. Calling things DF so and so limits the customer base. Some people skip DF items thinking there only good for DF even if they would work for other and more broad fantasy.
It's true however that afterwards he added more, in line with what you're saying.

Returning to your answer:

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Well this gets into what I talk about in that blog post about tone
Since you mention that a second time, I for one have a number of G+ posts collected in dimensions of fantasy roleplaying (some of them in English, others in Spanish, others in both languages), in which I speak a bit of the anagogical factor and its resonances (*), which incidentally are destroyed by means of satirizing and ridiculing symbols and themes.

(*) Which isn't truly related to literary criticism, philosophy, scholarship not even contemporary art theories; instead of that, a very important thing is lacking of prejudices acquired by means of contemporary education and culture.
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Old 09-19-2016, 04:31 PM   #62
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

Here's an idea that actually pops up in the legacy of dungeon fantasy from way way back (Keep on the Borderlands includes it as a suggested future plotline): the attack by the army of monsters. While this could be mass combat, anything DF focused should really be more about the individual acts of heroism that allow the PCs to turn the tide against the seemingly unstoppable army of foes.
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Old 09-19-2016, 05:55 PM   #63
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

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Originally Posted by demonsbane View Post
In the aforementioned game, there are many mentions and encouragements for that kind of campaigns.
That is true, but on the other hand DF is meant to emulate a very narrow style of play, which is the old school dungeon crawl. If I were inclined to play a court intrigue style game, why would I use DF? What would be the point of having a bunch of murder hobo's wandering around a castle full of nobles, diplomats and wealthy merchants? It would probably be really funny right up until the king has them all beheaded. It makes more sense to play GURPS Fantasy at that point.
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Old 09-19-2016, 06:35 PM   #64
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

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Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
That is true, but on the other hand DF is meant to emulate a very narrow style of play, which is the old school dungeon crawl. If I were inclined to play a court intrigue style game, why would I use DF? What would be the point of having a bunch of murder hobo's wandering around a castle full of nobles, diplomats and wealthy merchants? It would probably be really funny right up until the king has them all beheaded. It makes more sense to play GURPS Fantasy at that point.
The reason that people want to do social stuff with DF PCs is because usually they have played the PC for a long time going through dungeons and adventures and the player becomes fond of their PC and wants to do more with them. It is a process of time and experiences that makes a player care about their PC.
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Old 09-19-2016, 07:14 PM   #65
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
They are interested in adventures, these are consistently on the wishlist. The problem is finding authors interested in writing them.
Huh. I wonder why they have so much trouble with that.
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Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
That is true, but on the other hand DF is meant to emulate a very narrow style of play, which is the old school dungeon crawl. If I were inclined to play a court intrigue style game, why would I use DF? What would be the point of having a bunch of murder hobo's wandering around a castle full of nobles, diplomats and wealthy merchants? It would probably be really funny right up until the king has them all beheaded. It makes more sense to play GURPS Fantasy at that point.
How exactly would you play GURPS Fantasy? Isn't that another toolkit book and not a setting in and of itself?
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Old 09-19-2016, 08:05 PM   #66
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

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Originally Posted by Nemoricus View Post
Huh. I wonder why they have so much trouble with that.
Writing adventures isn't easy, especially not for GURPS.
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Old 09-19-2016, 08:10 PM   #67
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Writing adventures isn't easy, especially not for GURPS.
I'd say, rather, that writing adventures is easy, for GURPS or not; writing adventures that enough GURPS players will buy to make it worth ones while is hard.

ETA: Though, now that I reflect on it, a number of the more prominent GURPS authors say they just don't think that way, more sandboxy than vaguely plotted, so maybe adventure writing isn't that easy.
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Old 09-19-2016, 10:18 PM   #68
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

FWIW, which is probably not much, I would like to write them.
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Old 09-19-2016, 11:17 PM   #69
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

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Yeah, you really do. don't forget hoardings, trenchworks, and wooden palisades! Oh, and siege engines -- rams, screws, picks, etc.
And do not forget about scarps and counterscarps and why one is a laughing matter and the other not.
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Old 09-19-2016, 11:38 PM   #70
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Default Re: [DF] Beyond the Dungeon

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
They are interested in adventures, these are consistently on the wishlist. The problem is finding authors interested in writing them.
Yep. They seem to not sell well from what I have heard.

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Originally Posted by b-dog View Post
The reason that people want to do social stuff with DF PCs is because usually they have played the PC for a long time going through dungeons and adventures and the player becomes fond of their PC and wants to do more with them. It is a process of time and experiences that makes a player care about their PC.
That is a valid point. But you are still expanding past the DF model.
In my opinion DF is a starting point and if you want more you go to the broader GURPS material.
But calling it DF and making it fit the DF mold makes it less useful or at least appear less so for other GURPS Fantasy games.
I skipped the DF line for years for example till one book caught my eye and than I added more to mine for ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
I'd say, rather, that writing adventures is easy, for GURPS or not; writing adventures that enough GURPS players will buy to make it worth ones while is hard.

ETA: Though, now that I reflect on it, a number of the more prominent GURPS authors say they just don't think that way, more sandboxy than vaguely plotted, so maybe adventure writing isn't that easy.
Writing a good adventure is like writing a story. A lot different than technical writing or making new powers or describing and giving stats to something.

I personally almost never run published adventures. I make my own settings and odds are they wont fit as is or he PCs read them too.
I do buy some if they sound neat and mine them for ideas.
But certainly people ask for them, I just think there are more of me than more people who want modules.
Same with settings. GURPS has LOTS of settings, I bet more than D&D or pathfinder.
Building an adventure or setting that inspires and says I want o play that NOW is tougher than most people think it is.

That said I am all over a good suggestion book.
A) Seed books like the sidebars in Infinite Worlds work for me.
B) A book on how to build settings (Fantasy, Space, Horror) works for me.
C) Even a book on how to build adventures could work for me if it had good material I hadnt known or forgotten or even things to shortcut my own building.
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