Tactical Shooting vs. Protected Hearing

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

I was looking for effects of loud noises, found one, but am now puzzled by the contradiction between the way rules work:

Originally Posted by B78, Protected Sense

One of your ranged senses is pro-
tected against overload. It rapidly
adapts to the most intense of stimuli,
allowing you to function normally
after a maximum of two seconds of
impairment. You will never suffer per-
manent damage to that sense as a
result of excessive sensory input, and
you get +5 to rolls to resist temporary
damage and Sense-Based attacks tar-
geting that sense.

Seems solid? Yep. But then I read Tactical Shooting:

Originally Posted by TSh34

Apply -4 to Hearing rolls after gunshots outdoors, or -5 if
inside a building or vehicle, unless suppressors were used.
This applies to everybody nearby, including shooter, target,
and bystanders.
[notice it doesn't list the resistance roll against this affliction]
The hearing impairment lasts for (20-HT)
minutes, minimum one minute. After that, roll vs. HT every
second to recover. A critical failure on the first try means the
shooter has acquired permanent Hard of Hearing (p. B138)!
Robust Hearing (p. 40) reduces Hearing penalties by -1 and
gives +1 to the HT roll. Protected Hearing – e.g., from ear pro-
tection (High-Tech, p. 70) – gives +5 to the recovery roll and
prevents permanent loss completely.

So, the effect of Protected Hearing is

• Reduction of impairment duration to a flat 2 seconds.
• A +5 to resist temporary hearing-impairment effects.
• You never suffer permanent impairment.

Conversely, the effect in TSh is unGURPSy:

• Not only does it have a cosmic-ish effect of ignoring HT rolls, but it also sidesteps the Protected Sense ability to resist hearing-impairing.
• It sidesteps the reduction of temporary impairments' duration.

Simply put, with TSh mechanics, Protected Hearing isn't. What gives? Seems like either Protected Hearing needs to be reduced in price to 2 points at most, or Tactical Shooting needs a minor revision similar to the Powers: Enhanced Senses one we had recently.

Thanks in advance!

[Anthony]

I would assume that tactical shooting 'protected hearing' does not refer to the advantage, it refers to mundane hearing protection.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I would assume that tactical shooting 'protected hearing' does not refer to the advantage, it refers to mundane hearing protection.

That seems like a distinction without a difference, since mundane hearing protection . . .

Originally Posted by HT70

Earplugs (TL7). Give Protected Hearing and Hard of
Hearing while worn. $1, neg. LC4.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

That seems like a distinction without a difference, since mundane hearing protection . . .

Now I wonder which system HT is talking about; I don't have it. If they're talking about full electronic earmuffs, it should probably give the effects from Basic, ignoring the rules in TS.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Now I wonder which system HT is talking about; I don't have it. If they're talking about full electronic earmuffs, it should probably give the effects from Basic, ignoring the rules in TS.

I'm AFB... but the quote above says "Earplugs"... so I suspect it's earplugs, not muffs.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I'm AFB... but the quote above says "Earplugs"... so I suspect it's earplugs, not muffs.

And they're TL7 and $1. Not going to be electronic under those limits.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by johndallman

And they're TL7 and $1. Not going to be electronic under those limits.

Yeah, simple earplugs should probably be "+X to rolls to resist hearing loss; -X to hearing rolls".

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Now I wonder which system HT is talking about; I don't have it. If they're talking about full electronic earmuffs, it should probably give the effects from Basic, ignoring the rules in TS.

There's normal versions and electronic versions. Electronic ones give Protected Hearing but not Hard of Hearing.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Yeah, simple earplugs should probably be "+X to rolls to resist hearing loss; -X to hearing rolls".

Which seems to be the right way to go for simple plugs/muffs, but doesn't seem to help against the fact that full-fledged Protected Hearing is kinda meh against gunshot sounds.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, Protected Sense is an Exotic Advantage. Does Tactical Shooting presume a realistic environment in its discussions? I.E., the effects of Exotic Advantages are presumed to work as per the rules in Basic/Powers/Magic and are not specifically called out in Tactical Shooting?

For what it's worth, Tactical Shooting marries up fairly well with real world experience on this question, though I would question including the target in the effect unless the target is quite close to the shooter. On an open air range you can forgo wearing hearing protection while working in the butts with rifles firing slightly less than 100 yards away with the bullets striking the earthen berm a bit more than twenty yards from you. A range modifier seems to be in order.

One other point is that Protected Sense is far superior to technological hearing protection at TL 7, for example. It gives the same protection if you were standing next to a gun (an artillery piece) as it does when standing next to a small arm (eq., rifle) when being fired. In the 1980's even for a small calibre weapon, like a 105mm howitzer, wearing ear muff hearing protectors and ear plugs was a required safety precaution against hearing loss and it still wasn't considered adequate to guarantee that you wouldn't suffer a loss of hearing as an occupational hazard at the end of twenty years service.

[GodBeastX]

Tactical shooting might change a few rules just like Martial Arts can. It's a "realism"-centric book with greater detail on what to expect out of the situation.

Also, protected Sense was written to apply to ANY sense. This means sight, taste, smell, touch and hearing. That's an important distinction. Different situations may require different results.

This one in particular is specific to gunshots. Considering that the advantage is used on mundane items, it may not cover something that isn't mundane.

I certainly doubt an android with protected hearing is going to be hearing ringing in their ear after a gunshot with protected hearing =)

GM is free to apply their own decisions on this. I would probably go with 2 second maximum for the "Advantage" then treat the equipment as per written rule.