Divine Favor

[mehrkat]

Hi,

I really like the overall feel of Divine Favor for Priestly sorts. However, it seems like their is a default assumption that the affects should be rare.

How much would it break the system to make the define favor level required for level of miracle lower. I was thinking specifically make the healing type abilities cheaper maybe taking 2 levels off the requirements.

However, I'm wondering whether it would break too badly if I just made the divine favor level 2 or 3 lower across the board except for powers that I want to discourage. This is for a high magic gods are pretty involved but only through their priests world (sort of like a lot of the DnD worlds)

[Bruno]

The required levels of Divine Favor weren't picked because there's an assumption that it should be rare.

The required levels were picked because the Learned Prayers are standard Alternate Abilities of Divine Favor - the noted level is the one that costs enough to qualify for that learned prayer as an Alternate Ability.

If you just knock the DF level required down, you're giving a Divine Favor character a discount for no reason, one that no other player has. Just give him more points - it's more transparent that this is exactly what you're doing, so your other players can tell you if they're unhappy about it. Or give them all more points :)

[PK]

Are you talking about learned prayers or about specific miracles? Because I want to make sure you realize that anyone with any amount of Divine Favor can ask for any specific prayer. A person with Divine Favor 4 can ask for Eclipse if he wants to -- and while his petition roll is less likely to be heard than the lady with Divine Favor 16, both have the same odds of achieving the minimum reaction needed.

For learned prayers, it's worth noting that the Learned Prerequisite is based on what the miracle would cost in GURPS if bought as an advantage. So there is an objective reason for the Learned Prereq level. I didn't set them because they "felt right" -- I set them because it's how the math worked out.

That said, heck, feel free to change anything you want. Just realize that the more you lower the Learned Prereq, the cheaper you're actually making the ability -- because the price assumes that you've paid for a certain level of Divine Favor. For example, Lay On Hands isn't worth 8 points! It's worth 39 points. But you get the discount because you've already sunk at least 45 points into Divine Favor. So you're actually paying a total of 53 points to have "Divine Favor 8 + Lay On Hands." Let's say that you drop the Learned Prereq to DF 6. Now you can buy "Divine Favor 6 + Lay On Hands" for a total of just 33 points . . . which means you're getting the useful Divine Favor and a 39-point advantage for just 33 points. You're basically giving the paragon free points.

If that's okay for your campaign, then go for it. I just want to make sure you make the choice with full awareness. :)

[Langy]

Alternatively, create a different, cheaper healing power. I think this is most appropriate for a DF-style 'cleric'; doing so makes it so a 250-point Dungeon Fantasy Divine Favor cleric is actually capable of healing the party, which is a pretty useful tool. Unfortunately, default Divine Favor healing is just too expensive for a DF cleric to get at game start without crippling them in all other areas, if I remember right.

EDIT: That is, the healing that doesn't involve hurting/potentially killing the cleric is too expensive.

[Refplace]

Divine favor is nothing more then Patron already calculated out and then Learned Prayers are built off that Patron as AA.
You cant really change the cost of LP but you could change the cost of the Patron. Build it from scratch if you want to but I found its a lot more work then its worth and go with the default assumptions used in the book.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Langy

Alternatively, create a different, cheaper healing power.

That's another option. One of the reasons the Healing abilities in DF are so expensive is that they attempt to avoid both skill rolls and FP costs. If you don't mind adding those back in, you could make a cheaper miracle. Just expand the concept of "normal/enhanced" to "basic/normal/enhanced" and add a slightly weakened version:

MINOR BLESSINGS
Lay On Hands (Basic)
Learned Prerequisite: Divine Favor 6.
Learned Prayer Cost: 5 points.

With skin-to-skin contact, you may make a Religious Ritual roll to heal a person's injuries or illness. (It is entirely possible to be granted this miracle, and then fail the roll; if that happens, the miracle is wasted. Sorry!) This version of the miracle doesn't grant any of the deity's energy, so the paragon must pay FP. Use the rules for Healing. Multiple attempts to use this miracle on the same subject in the same day are at a cumulative -3 to the Religious Ritual roll.

Statistics: Healing (Contact Agent, -30%; Divine, -10%; Faith Healing, +20%) [24]

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

That's another option. One of the reasons the Healing abilities in DF are so expensive is that they attempt to avoid both skill rolls and FP costs. If you don't mind adding those back in, you could make a cheaper miracle. Just expand the concept of "normal/enhanced" to "basic/normal/enhanced" and add a slightly weakened version:

MINOR BLESSINGS
Lay On Hands (Basic)
Learned Prerequisite: Divine Favor 6.
Learned Prayer Cost: 5 points.

With skin-to-skin contact, you may make a Religious Ritual roll to heal a person's injuries or illness. (It is entirely possible to be granted this miracle, and then fail the roll; if that happens, the miracle is wasted. Sorry!) This version of the miracle doesn't grant any of the deity's energy, so the paragon must pay FP. Use the rules for Healing. Multiple attempts to use this miracle on the same subject in the same day are at a cumulative -3 to the Religious Ritual roll.

Statistics: Healing (Contact Agent, -30%; Divine, -10%; Faith Healing, +20%) [24]

Where were you two or three weeks ago when I was making my paladin of Pharasma (from Pathfinder) in GURPS? (He's a Warrior Saint) :-)

That's a lot of spare points from DivF 6+LoH(Basic) to DivF 8+LoH when you're trying to split between combat utility and being a "backup" healer.

[mehrkat]

thanks to all especially Jason. Somehow I was missing the loop in my head that the Divine Favor is part of the "real" cost.

I'll just create some lower level powers for healing and such with some disads added.

Thanks

Ps Its really freakin' cool to post on a forum and have the author pop on and explain how I was confused be so nice about it.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Where were you two or three weeks ago when I was making my paladin of Pharasma (from Pathfinder) in GURPS? (He's a Warrior Saint) :-)

Hey, not too late to juggle things :)

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Hey, not too late to juggle things :)

I know. I'll try this version on my updated version of Cadmus and see where it gets me. I like the Warrior Saint feel, but I really like True Faith (Turning) as an actual niche to hold that no one else can do. I'll have to see that as a Learned Prayer (almost certain it's already there, probably as Smite Lite or something), and see if that helps him be anything other than filler.