[MH] Weapon Master for non-warriors

[Kuroshima]

In my MH game, I'm going to use full Psionic Powers for psis, and full Divine Favor for crusaders. Now, in my previous game, that used Divine Favor, one of the learned prayers I created, was one that, among other things, gave the user Weapon Master, and the player has asked me if he could take it. Initially, I said that no, he can not, but then I though that the crusader player would be paying a lot more for Weapon Master than the warrior, since using weapon master would mean renouncing to the Divine Favor advantage (usually 70+ points), to Power Investiture (Divine Favor) and to all the other learned prayers.

Also, I've been asked if Weapon Master is going to be available after creation, for example, for inhumans and experiments, to allow them to really get the benefit of their ST.

Is Blade! good enough that other templates can get Weapon Master without rendering the warrior obsolete?

[blacksmith]

I am certainly not enforcing that level of niche protection in my games. I don't see it as a part of the genre as it is a litterary genre and not a rpg genre.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

...I though that the crusader player would be paying a lot more for Weapon Master than the warrior, since using weapon master would mean renouncing to the Divine Favor advantage (usually 70+ points), to Power Investiture (Divine Favor) and to all the other learned prayers.

Why would taking Weapon Master require the Crusader to renounce their Divine Favor?
Divine Favor requires 10 points of Religious Disadvantages, and the 3 basic Disadvantage options for the Crusader are all -10 points, and none of them blocks Weapon Master.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by SCAR

Why would taking Weapon Master require the Crusader to renounce their Divine Favor?
Divine Favor requires 10 points of Religious Disadvantages, and the 3 basic Disadvantage options for the Crusader are all -10 points, and none of them blocks Weapon Master.

Because as a Learned Prayer, it's an alternate ability to Divine Favor, and Divine Favor usually costs much more than Weapon Master.

[Bruno]

"Renounce" might be the bad word here - I think he means "Temporarily turn off while using Weapon Master".

As opposed to "Renounce your faith", which when talking about divine powers and crusaders means something rather more permanent and traumatic.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Because as a Learned Prayer, it's an alternate ability to Divine Favor, and Divine Favor usually costs much more than Weapon Master.

Yes, I understand completely now.

If the player thinks it's worth the points (and the cost), then I don't see why it should be a problem.

Niche Protection serves to prevent, or limit, one Archetype from stealing the thunder of another Archetypes area of expertise. If allowing other Champions to take Weapon Master would make the Warrior feeling like a poor cousin, then they shouldn't be able to take it.
However, since the Warrior was WM for All Weapons, I don't think it would be a big deal to allow other templates to take the 1 or 2 weapon versions of WM.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

In my MH game, I'm going to use full Psionic Powers for psis, and full Divine Favor for crusaders. Now, in my previous game, that used Divine Favor, one of the learned prayers I created, was one that, among other things, gave the user Weapon Master, and the player has asked me if he could take it. Initially, I said that no, he can not, but then I though that the crusader player would be paying a lot more for Weapon Master than the warrior, since using weapon master would mean renouncing to the Divine Favor advantage (usually 70+ points), to Power Investiture (Divine Favor) and to all the other learned prayers.

Also, I've been asked if Weapon Master is going to be available after creation, for example, for inhumans and experiments, to allow them to really get the benefit of their ST.

Is Blade! good enough that other templates can get Weapon Master without rendering the warrior obsolete?

I don't see why not, especially if it's not the full-blown Weapon Master that the warrior has access too (except for a learned prayer of course).

With Blade! at DX+2 and Weapon Master...it is...well it is pretty impressive. +2/die on all the weapons covered by the skill.

Specially axes, ya gotta have axe.

:)

Ghostdancer

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Bruno

"Renounce" might be the bad word here - I think he means "Temporarily turn off while using Weapon Master".

As opposed to "Renounce your faith", which when talking about divine powers and crusaders means something rather more permanent and traumatic.

Sorry, language barrier then. I was at a loss for the exact word, and just trusted google translate. What I meant, is that the crusader would be paying more than twice for his Weapon Master (minimum would be 85 points, technically, but the advantage section allows for 20 points in Mysticism talent, so I'm allowing up to +2 Power Investiture from the general advantage section). He would also lose access to Blessed (Heroic Feats), and some more combat-useful abilities.

Originally Posted by SCAR

Yes, I understand completely now.

If the player thinks it's worth the points (and the cost), then I don't see why it should be a problem.

Niche Protection serves to prevent, or limit, one Archetype from stealing the thunder of another Archetypes area of expertise. If allowing other Champions to take Weapon Master would make the Warrior feeling like a poor cousin, then they shouldn't be able to take it.
However, since the Warrior was WM for All Weapons, I don't think it would be a big deal to allow other templates to take the 1 or 2 weapon versions of WM.

Since I don't have a warrior for the initial party makeup, then he's not going to steal anyone's thunder. However, that might change in the future, as characters die or retire. Also, if this is available as a learned prayer, than it's also available as a specific prayer, and that means that he could also ask for the specific version of weapon master he wants. This means that if I ever allow him weapon master as a (learned or specific) prayer, it will be full weapon master.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I don't see why not, especially if it's not the full-blown Weapon Master that the warrior has access too (except for a learned prayer of course).

With Blade! at DX+2 and Weapon Master...it is...well it is pretty impressive. +2/die on all the weapons covered by the skill.

Specially axes, ya gotta have axe.

:)

Ghostdancer

Well, while I see that Rev has made wildcards way more useful than they were in the basic set, I still see Blades and full weapon master as not really worth it, since you're usually using 1 or 2 weapons tops. Maybe MH will show me the error in my ways though.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Well, while I see that Rev has made wildcards way more useful than they were in the basic set, I still see Blades and full weapon master as not really worth it, since you're usually using 1 or 2 weapons tops. Maybe MH will show me the error in my ways though.

No One True Way. :P

You might find it better to simply use a single skill and go from there, I know my perceptions are colored due to the fact that I prefer versatility vs. focus.

Ghostdancer

[Bruno]

My gaming group is heavily slanted towards specialists. I swear some of them break out in hives when you whisper the word "versatile" - I'm not quite that bad myself, in that I have a sort of artistic appreciation for versatility, but I can sink into really narrow niches when left unsupervised.

I think Monster Hunters is one of the better genres to push a versatile approach to melee weapons, but it takes a bit of conscious effort by the GM. Demons are the easiest vehicle for requiring it as they're highly variable; if one demon can only be slain by a wrought-iron spear to the heart, and another if beheaded with a "blooded" executioners axe, and a third can be killed with a steel sword (of any design) but only with a steel sword and only when neither inside nor outside, neither on the ground or in the water, and neither during the day or during the night, you immediately need three weapons, one of which may never be able to be consecrated as a Holy weapon (I'd definitely be pretty dubious about the executioners ax becoming holy) which further limits its use against other enemies. You'd want at least a fourth weapon made of silver (for werewolves), never mind other basically-one-trick badguys who might need other weapon designs.

But the GM has to push this. It can't just be a variety of materials, or players will pick one weapon type to specialize in, skip Weapon Bond, but still carry a golf-club bag filled with different flavors of otherwise-identical longswords (for example).