Permeation Questions [Basic/Powers]

[AlexanderHowl]

In the case of the Meld enhancement, the character becomes part of the thing they permeate. With Meld 1, it must be a single discrete object, such as an individual mountain with Permeation (Earth) or an individual tree with Permeation (Wood). With Meld 2, it must be a single distributed group of objects, such as all of the Earth with Permeation (Earth) or all of the trees in a forest with Permeation (Wood).

With Permeation (Flesh), what would Meld 2 do for you? While a single discrete organism of any size would be covered by Meld 1, would Meld 2 allow you to permeate a single distributed group of living organisms? For example, could I use Permeation (Flesh; Meld 2, +300%) to meld with an entire city of humans or herd of horses? If not, how would you represent melding with an entire city of humans or herd of horses?

[naloth]

Sure, Meld 2 for herd, flock, or city seems fair. Of course, I apply (size) penalties to notice anything so the bigger you meld with, the less you can pay attention to. Your attention can still be focused "normally" on a point you choose, and you can shift it around.

Meld offers these general benefits:
- It can make you very hard to locate.
- Even if they can locate you, you're much harder to apprehend or injury.
- You have limited observation of your melded surroundings.
- You can effectively warp to any point along what you can meld with a couple of actions.

The first two seem powerful, but in a game with Supers or magic there's usually plenty of alternative ways of handling such an opponent.

The third can be game breaking, and needs to be limited.

The fourth isn't so bad since they still have to figure out where to go in unfamiliar surroundings and meld characters tend to want to hang out with the party (where the action is). Meld is less of a concern than Warp, Speedster running, or fast flight.

[Aldric]

You should probably run a price check on the basic Permeation. There are probably more people than trees in a large city, and it's possible that with wood you'd be stuck in a single park, if you allow people in a city as an option, that gives a lot more freedom.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by naloth

Meld offers these general benefits:
...
- You have limited observation of your melded surroundings.
...
The third can be game breaking, and needs to be limited.

That's a bit misleading. If you're using Meld, you don't really have "limited observation of your melded surroundings". You know the shape of the object you're melded to, and you can move your perception to any single point on it, but I don't see a reason in the text to think you have any broad perception.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

That's a bit misleading. If you're using Meld, you don't really have "limited observation of your melded surroundings". You know the shape of the object you're melded to, and you can move your perception to any single point on it, but I don't see a reason in the text to think you have any broad perception.

Sure. I was referring to a situations more like when a part of your melded body was attacked, heated by the sun (daybreak), etc. You can generally sense that in proportion to what it would be like if something interacted with your body.

[AlexanderHowl]

So, let us say that you have Lifting ST+20 (Super, -10%) [54], Permeation (Earth; Can Carry Objects, Heavy Encumbrance, +100%; Extended, Stone, +20%; Meld 2, +300%; Reflexive, +40%; Super, -10%) [220], and Pressure Support 3 (Super, -10%) [14]. Assuming that you had ST 10, that would give you the ability to take up to 1,080 lbs through the Earth with Permeation. Could you forcibly drag someone through the Earth and drop them off the side of a mountain? Could you forcibly drag someone to the bottom of the ocean and push them out where the pressure would crush them like an empty soda can?

[naloth]

To treat someone as a possession (encumbrance), that target would need to be disabled or willing.

[AlexanderHowl]

Why? If I grapple someone and pick them up to toss them off the side of a cliff, do they not count as encumbrance?

[naloth]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Why? If I grapple someone and pick them up to toss them off the side of a cliff, do they not count as encumbrance?

Not after you've tossed them off of a cliff.

If you were at the bottom of a cliff and you wanted to drag them up, you would need to grapple (grab), then disable/pin them, before moving them to the top.

If you were at the top of a cliff, grapple (grab) then pick up is a minimum 2 seconds of action. During that they have a fair chance to resist and you're not really in possession/control of them so much as you're force-ably moving them.

Encumbrance implies that you have control and possession of an item.

[AlexanderHowl]

Since I have an effective ST 30 for the purpose of grappling, I could drag an individual without pinning them as long as they had a ST 15- (Basic, p. 371). If they have a ST 16+, I would need to pin them before I could move them, but it is not something that would be a major problem. Taking two turns to prepare an ultimate attack is not necessarily a bad thing.