Insubstantiality/ invisible

[jabba]

If i am insubstantial and invisible can i be detected by IR vision or other such detecting devises without having the invisible to machines enhancement to my invisibility

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by jabba

If i am insubstantial and invisible can i be detected by IR vision or other such detecting devises without having the invisible to machines enhancement to my invisibility

Invisibility will not make you invisible to the device, only to the person. So: it works against a pair of IR goggles, but not a camera.

[jabba]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

Invisibility will not make you invisible to the device, only to the person. So: it works against a pair of IR goggles, but not a camera.

that dont add up.the goggles are a device
and what about the insubstantiality

[sir_pudding]

For most uses of Invisibility you should include Affects Machines. The fact that the other way is the default is really just a weird 3e legacy.

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by jabba

that dont add up.the goggles are a device

Yes, but they don't create their own picture. If the device helps you see, then base Invisibility works. If it sees, and tells you where it is, then it falls under the "not against machines" exception.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by jabba

that dont add up.the goggles are a device
and what about the insubstantiality

Without "invisibility to machines" it is the optic nerves that are being deceived. The goggles do see you, but you can't see what the goggles are showing you. Insubstantiality doesn't matter.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Without "invisibility to machines" it is the optic nerves that are being deceived. The goggles do see you, but you can't see what the goggles are showing you. Insubstantiality doesn't matter.

That's the way I understand it, too, but since the goggles essentially put the image on little screens in front of your eyes, it does raise the question whether even if cameras pick you up, the security guard sitting at the monitor sees you onscreen or if it's only automatic systems that will react to you.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

That's the way I understand it, too, but since the goggles essentially put the image on little screens in front of your eyes, it does raise the question whether even if cameras pick you up, the security guard sitting at the monitor sees you onscreen or if it's only automatic systems that will react to you.

No the thing is Goggle don't 'store' the image, they just adjues the wave lengths. Same thing with most optical telescopes.

A camera will store the image, and you see the Stored image NOT the invisible person, the's the difference.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

No the thing is Goggle don't 'store' the image, they just adjues the wave lengths. Same thing with most optical telescopes.

A camera will store the image, and you see the Stored image NOT the invisible person, the's the difference.

And if it's a live monitor, not recorded?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

And if it's a live monitor, not recorded?

Unless it's really a optical telescope, you are still looking at a recorded image. That fact the it only record to short term memory not long would not matter to my ruling.