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Old 11-18-2009, 08:47 PM   #51
Crakkerjakk
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

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Originally Posted by Phil C. View Post
Gentlemen, I concede.

I looked at King Conall's stats in GURPS Banestorm, and you are all indeed correct. He's Status 7 -- purchased Status 4, and receives +3 from Wealth.

I stand corrected!

I regret that it took me 5+ pages of discussion to have it sink in. :)
Your recent threads have significantly added to the quality of discussion around here, and promoted discussion that has been highly enlightening.

Unlike others, I believe that while there may be no stupid questions, there are a whole lot of inquisitive idiots. You are not one of them.

Thank you very much for your insightful inquiries. Keep it up.
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:29 PM   #52
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

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I didn't get anything with that link...
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=5658

Your question(s) appear to be answered - however this link should work... sorry about that.

Kromm's explanation starts at 27.

Cheers!
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:40 AM   #53
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

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I stand corrected!
I pride myself on being persuadable; so few people are, especially on the interwebs.

It is the surest sign of a mind at work, actually listening to the opposing arguments rather than just waiting for your opportunity to restate your own opinion louder.

I applaud you, sir. May others learn from your example.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:00 AM   #54
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

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Originally Posted by Phil C. View Post
...

If you could articulate the following senario in terms the rules, I would be grateful.

An unlanded knight (Status 2)-- is Very Wealthy (+1), due to some business investments, connections, and all the other factors you say might make-up Wealth. This means that he bought Status 1, ...
With Character Points, right?

Quote:
... and his +1 from Wealth makes him Status 2 -- so that he specifically equals Status 2, as an unlanded knight.

What if bad things happen ... He goes from Very Wealthy, to Comfortable -- losing his +1 bonus from Wealth. Without the bonus, his Status is 1. Is he now a Status 1 unlanded knight? Or do we increase his bought Status to 2, so he's still the appropriate Status for his social class? Please explain.
My take is this:

-He records the reduced Wealth advantage on his character sheet, reducing his character point value.

-He becomes Status 1 and this is recorded on the character sheet, with no resulting further change of character point value.

-All rolls etc that involve Status are carried out at Status 1, not two.

-wealth that he may retain in excess of this new Wealth level is now fair game for the GM to chip away.

-the character's in-play title would change in whatever way the setting dictates -- in my TL3 fantasy setting that could mean that he still styles himself 'Sir', but 'everyone knows' about his debility and treats him a little less respectfully than unencumbered knights, or that his 'Sir' title was ex-officio and he can't use it. The point here is that the in-play, in-setting defintions can vary in different ways and really are like 'special effects' of the status Advantage.
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:41 AM   #55
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

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Wealth, because it is something you pay points for, is about longterm sustainability.
I can pay points for a success, and have them evaporate into the ether.

If you want to restrict it to advantages, ISTR "extra life" works once.

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There have been a number of studies that show that the majority of poor people who win the lottery end up poor again after not too long, because they don't know how to deal with the money and turn that into something sustainable. In other words, they got cash, but they didn't get Wealth.
Of perhaps they had little in the way of financial skills and a gambling addiction.

In any case GURPS generally focuses on adventurers, not lottery winners. It is a common adventuring trope that vast riches gained in adventures rarely "stick," so the way Wealth works is fine for an RPG.

The name is still unfortunate. Like "Honesty" and "IQ," it is significantly different from the common English word it is identical to. Counter intuitive naming conventions are hard to avoid in a long running agglomerative project like GURPS, but they are annoying.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:54 AM   #56
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

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I can pay points for a success, and have them evaporate into the ether.

If you want to restrict it to advantages, ISTR "extra life" works once.
In general, paying points for something is an investment that prevents the GM from getting rid of it without you having a chance to prevent it. If you excessively squander your money, or do some Bad Wrong things to your merchantile contracts, you could lose Wealth. If you force an Ally to fight a dragon and he gets eaten, you lose that Ally. However, because you have paid points for these Advantages, the GM can't just up and say "Oh yeah, the 'stocks' you invested in turned out to be a Ponzi Scheme, so you've gone from Filthy Rich to Struggling;" or "Oh, Alastar? His town got attacked by a dragon last week and he got eaten, remove that Ally Advantage from your character sheet."

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Originally Posted by martinl View Post
...
The name is still unfortunate. Like "Honesty" and "IQ," it is significantly different from the common English word it is identical to. Counter intuitive naming conventions are hard to avoid in a long running agglomerative project like GURPS, but they are annoying.
Eh, I'm not certain what else you could call it, and wealth is certainly involved. "Money, Property, Social Contacts, and Investments" is a bit long, yeah?
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:57 AM   #57
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

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Originally Posted by SuedodeuS View Post

Eh, I'm not certain what else you could call it, and wealth is certainly involved. "Money, Property, Social Contacts, and Investments" is a bit long, yeah?
To be fair, I wanted to call it "Economic Rank" or "Economic Status," but others felt that was too close to "Rank" and "Status," and probably easily confused given its relationship with the political kind of Status.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:16 AM   #58
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

Socioeconomic Standing? Still not too snappy. (And more commonly seen as "... Status", but we're trying to avoid that word. Grade, Station, Place, Condition, Degree. Or Capacity, as that helps emphasize the potential more than just the current wealth.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:23 AM   #59
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

Honestly it wouldn't be all that bad an idea to replace status and wealth with a single advantage that combines the two and can have limitations and enhancements like "cash-poor" and "nouveau riche"
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:28 AM   #60
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Default Re: Status & Wealth - Nobility

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Socioeconomic Standing? Still not too snappy. (And more commonly seen as "... Status", but we're trying to avoid that word. Grade, Station, Place, Condition, Degree. Or Capacity, as that helps emphasize the potential more than just the current wealth.
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