When can an attuned die?

[Puppetminion]

This has been bugging me for a while now. I was hoping the APG covered it, but I just got my hands on it and nope.

Under what circumstances will a Cherub not take dissonance when an attuned dies/is destroyed?

If the answer is never, then I would expect every Cherub to eventually fall, since they are immortal and nothing corporeal is.

Severing the attunement when you know someone is dying seems very anti-Cherubic to me. And even if they did, it will sometimes give them 2 points, with a possible immediate Fall.

[Archangel Beth]

Cherubim of War and Destiny know that, eventually, their angelic nature... is just not suitable for the corporeal realm. (Remember, angels aren't supposed to be mucking around on Earth, teeeeechnically. It's all this darn War thing with demons which makes them have to. If they know what's good for them, they tread lightly.)

And when the time comes, they de-attune, or they eat the dissonance and their Archangels remove it later (if they were being angelic about it). (There's also the Tether-work option.) It's counter-intuitive to Cherubim, but sometimes you have to let go in order to not betray their attuned's best interest.

A GM could always rule that a Cherub's attuned mortal who dies of natural causes with destiny fulfilled, and/or dies in the course of fulfilling his/her destiny, will cause no dissonance to the Cherub because said mortal has just hit the Go To Heaven, Do Not Pass Go home run.

Sensible Archangels will give the orders for the Cherub to de-attune when the job is done, of course; Cherubim of Judgment do a lot of "attune to Seraph, do triad work for a while, de-attune and go on to the next assignment." It's part of the job.

EDIT: Also, Cherubim are very unlikely to even go Outcast unless they are stupid.

They have to roll their notes of CURRENT dissonance or more on 3 dice. A Cherub who has just done something dissonant has 0 current dissonance, and must roll a 0 or more on any one die of 3d6. After that roll, the new note of dissonance is given. Now it has 1.

A Cherub with 1 note of dissonance who does something else dissonant must roll a 1 or more on any one die of 3d6. After this roll, the new note comes in. Now it has 2.

A Cherub with 2 notes of dissonance must roll 2+ on 3d6 -- BUT! A 111 is always good for angels! After the roll, it has 3 notes of dissonance.

Once a celestial has 3 notes of dissonance, it may convert them into 1 level of Discord. Now it has 0 notes of dissonance!

Assume the Cherub is not conservative and does something else -- it must now roll 3+ on any one of the 3d6. If the Cherub rolls a 2 2 2, 1 2 2, or 2 1 1, that will crack the Cherub's Heart. Now it's an Outcast, and has 4 notes of dissonance.

(Also, any time above, a 666 will go right to the Heart-cracking level -- which gives time to run screaming and sobbing to a Tether.)

If the Cherub does something else, it must roll a 4+ -- if the dice only show 1s, 2s, or 3s, then and only then does the Cherub Fall. (And it's done no fewer than 5 dissonant acts and bound none of them into Discord, unless there was a 666 involved.)

It's not easy to Fall by accident.

[Methariel]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

A GM could always rule that a Cherub's attuned mortal who dies of natural causes with destiny fulfilled, and/or dies in the course of fulfilling his/her destiny, will cause no dissonance to the Cherub because said mortal has just hit the Go To Heaven, Do Not Pass Go home run.

Hm, this sounds good to me, better than the - apparently official - dissonance-solution. (Please, excuse my sometimes horrible English.) But that's only my humble opinion.
I think it would be a bit unfair if someone who died of old age - something all the powers in Heaven can't prevent - caused his guarding Cherub to become dissonant.
For isn't that the end the Symphony intended for the person? (If the Symphony intends Destiny for everyone, and not Fate. But let this be discussed by Yves and Kronos and leave us our optimistic views.) He died not of something "natural" like a heart attack or a disease (something a Cherub should prevent from occuring) but because his time was up.
So if the Symphony got what it wanted - why should it "punish" the angels for that?
Cherubim of War and of Destiny will know when their attuned will die (of natural causes) and can prevent that if it isn't "right". But if it is...? (I remember reading that Yves' Cherubim know when to let someone pass on.) Their ability also helps them cope better with the demise of someone they've got such a close "relationship" with. The other Cherubim just can find solace in not feeling dissonant - and thus knowing that their charge is in Heaven now.

I hope my opinion was a little useful,

Methariel


PS: But I don't know how I played it (officially or "lighter") if the situation occured in my game...

[Archangel Beth]

The reason behind the official rules -- dissonance -- is that really, angels aren't supposed to be on Earth, period. They are creatures of absolute devotion, operating in a realm where absolutes are rare. Because of the nature of Cherubim, and the nature of the corporeal plane, any Cherub's relationship with an attuned human will be bittersweet at best, and tragedy at worst.

Cherubim can de-attune without dissonance, mind (if they make the Will roll). That's the bittersweet triumph of "I know this is how it must be, on Earth," over their angelic drive to protect. (Failing that Will roll symbolizes that they couldn't believe that what they were doing was necessary to the natural order of the corporeal realm -- and so they take dissonance for "harming" their attuned by trying to "desert" it. (IIRC))

While it's certainly fine to house-rule it otherwise, if one doesn't want to deal with the themes involved, I wouldn't want to change the canon on it -- those themes can be very powerful, and make playing a Cherub more interesting to some.