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Old 02-21-2017, 12:18 PM   #31
Frost
 
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Default Re: Shared space setting

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
A lot of game settings, I think, end up with a smorgasbord of warps and hyperspaces, which I'd prefer to avoid.


I meant it's more space opera in tone, even if it's equally feasible. I could be convinced otherwise though, with the right technobable.
What if we could tie the two into the same phenomenon?

Treating either STL or FTL warping and wormholes as manifestations of the same effect, should overcome some of your objections and add a degree of verisimilitude. Maybe something like the the split used in a number of Peter F Hamilton's universes (fallen dragon is probably the best inspiration for us) where different devices using the same principle give you either a compression drive (offering slow FTL, at relatively low power usage) and the portals (near instantaneous travel for multiple ships within a short window, at a massive energy cost and limited availability).

I am tempted to amend my vote to reflect this idea, STL gave a nice sense of distance but ultimately it may have been too much.

Last edited by Frost; 02-21-2017 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 02-21-2017, 01:05 PM   #32
johndallman
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Default Re: Shared space setting

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
SWhy though would you send a braintape with a cloning tank instead of sending the original frozen person in the first place?
Because frozen people are loads of mass, and you can use a cloning tank many times. You collect almost all the matter it uses at the destination, only shipping data (brain tapes) and cells for cloning.
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Old 02-21-2017, 02:56 PM   #33
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Shared space setting

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
There is still a little while to go on questions 1 and 2 but I think I can afford to post more.

3) What is the overall TL?

a) 9
b) 10
c) 11

My vote: b) possibly with one or more lenses. It seems about right for the time period and the pattern of development while offering the potential for big changes.
Yes, TL 10 as a base. Since everyone except for me opted for quite near future TL 10 would be about the only option for anything except Retarded or Accelerated tech advance.


Quote:
4) Given that this is a relitively small multi-system setting how is interstellar travel accomplished?
a) Fast (super science) STL (Sub-light warp drive, Pseudo velocity etc)
b) Slow FTL
c) Fast but limited FTL (Remote or intermittently operable jump gates for example)
d) Two of the above

My vote: d) Although it creates problems fast STL averts the casual interstellar travel trope and adds incentives to occupy less than optimal colony sites while FTL travel using limited means addresses many of these problems without losing the sense of distance.
Warp gates are a huge obstacle to "space opera". They make aggression, smuggling and piracy impractical because they are too easily monitored and defended. There is of course no practical difference between fast STL and slow FTL except that slow FTL obviates the problems of collisions at relativistic speed


Quote:
5) How dependent is humanity on 'earthlike' planets?

a) Major settlements are only present on 'earthlike' planets.
b) Major settlements exist on some non-earthlike worlds. (For example, Mars, Europa etc.)
c) Major settlements can exist anywhere you can find water and power, if there is enough of a reason.

My vote: c) I feel that this encourages the use of the technologies we want to highlight.
I see no difference between b and c. Also I don't know what you mean by "major". Given that the setting is a relatively short period into the future, the settlements won't have had a long time to grow.
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Old 02-21-2017, 05:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: Shared space setting

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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
There is still a little while to go on questions 1 and 2 but I think I can afford to post more.

3) What is the overall TL?
I'm going to go with 3a, on this one, with TL10 for biotech. That allows for gene-fixing of defects, and engineering humanity to adapt more easily to alternate environments, without going completely over the top and into human immortality due to cellular regeneration. It also means you can have animal uplifts as a viable character type, and even cybernetics similar to what's available to most people in Ghost in the Shell.

As for everything else, the use of guns (even those that use caseless rounds) helps foster a frontier sensibility for the setting. I think the Colonial Marines in Aliens, and the weapons in Firefly, work really well for space settings, and provide a sense of verisimilitude that only helps immerse players.

Once you start to include man-portal small-arms energy weapons, you get into issues with power availability that reliance on chemical propellants never raise. So, troops carry pistols, rifles, grenades and rockets recognizable to most of us, but receive support from vehicle-mounted gauss weapons and lasers.


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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
4) Given that this is a relatively small multi-system setting how is interstellar travel accomplished?
I'll go with 4c, on this one, if I understand the terms correctly. It takes a significant amount of time to travel light-years, but it doesn't take years. Call it a week or two per light year, which means trips across multiple light years might take months, but close-by systems can be reached in a reasonable amount of time.

Also, if FTL engines cost a lot of money to build but not too much to operate, regardless of size, then the incentive exists to build only those you need, and use them as long as you can. The need to keep people alive for months makes colony vessels big and expensive. Governments and other large organizations build and operate them, and only send them to places where they have confidence that humans can survive and thrive.

However, it also means that, once built, a starship continues to get used until it can no longer operate at all. That means smaller freighters remain on the market even when replaced by larger ones, and the military never sends outdated troop-transports or supply ships to bone-yards. Somebody always wants to buy decommissioned vessels, if they operate at all (or can be fixed up) rather than take on the huge expense of new construction.

Second-hand ships probably still cost quite a bit, but while fourth-hand or fifth hand ships are a bit spendy, and prone to odd quirks and problems due to age and use, they remain affordable to smaller operations willing to put in a lot of elbow-grease and treat them with tender loving care.

The existence of smaller, after-market vessels also makes it possible to set up a mining operation in an asteroid belt (for instance) and, if successful, keep habitats supplied.

So, colony ships are big, hulking beasts that take colonists by the thousands to habitable planets, and are mostly operated by governments or wealthy private sector owners. However, space is dotted with habitats of all sorts, created for many purposes for many reasons, and kept supplied with (more or less) creaky old tramp freighters who make supply runs between habitats, or between planets and habitats.


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Originally Posted by Frost View Post
5) How dependent is humanity on 'earthlike' planets?
I'll go with 5b, on this one, in keeping with my vote on Question 4. The single largest concentration of humans remains on Earth, but Mars comes in second with tens of millions, followed by other habitable systems that have a few million each on an "earthlike" planet, scattered among colonies created by different sponsors for different reasons.

The colonies on each planet sometimes don't get along with their neighbors on the same planet, but most differences arise only after multiple colonies have achieved success. Early on, colonies focus on survival, and people just arrived on a new world are usually smart enough to help each other out, regardless of the official policies of the sponsors.

That said, a successful colony system might have a few dozen space habitats with thousands of people, each (Sol system has hundreds of such habitats), and a system with a rich asteroid belt but no habitable planet could have a scattering of small to medium-sized industrial habitats, especially if it lies on a trade-route.

Fringe groups are never the first to colonize a planet, although they might purchase a surplus transport vessel or book passage on one that has passed to private hands. Usually, they'll receive permission to join a sponsored colony already in existence, remain there long enough to learn the ropes and fulfill any contractual obligations, and then head off into the bush to build their New Nirvanas (or whatever). Alternatively, they buy a surplus logistics vessel of some sort, pack it with hydroponics, seeds, mining gear and smelters, and head off to a belt in the middle of nowhere. If the group manages to survive, the ship forms the nucleus of a habitat.
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Last edited by tshiggins; 02-21-2017 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 02-21-2017, 05:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: Shared space setting

3) What is the overall TL?
a) 9^

I like the idea of having a few miracles and a great deal of refinement from modern tech, but otherwise everything being very thoroughly understood.

4) Given that this is a relatively small multi-system setting how is interstellar travel accomplished?
b) Slow FTL (Specifically jumpgates or ancient stargates located on the edge of the star systems)* Edited.

B (or C) makes a lot of sense considering the small scale of the galaxy. Stargates could provide a tiny network of worlds either because only a few of them still work or because only a few have been delivered STL to the destinations yet. "Precursor Tech" also gives us a lot of leeway to explain why ships aren't using a bunch of spin-off tech from the FTL system, and of course, provides an interesting hook such as looking for other archeological discoveries.

5) How dependent is humanity on 'earthlike' planets?
c) Major settlements can exist anywhere...

Makes sense to me. It also helps to expand the region despite the small number of stars, since Sol has Luna, Mars, the Venus Heliostats, some independent Jovian stations, Free Europa, Ceres, Dawn, Titan, Eros... Alpha Centauri a might have a similar number, although the younger stars probably have less... and this still leaves Terraforming as a major industrial operation.

Last edited by PTTG; 02-21-2017 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:23 PM   #36
Flaco76
 
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Default Re: Shared space setting

3) What is the overall TL?

a) 9
b) 10
c) 11

My vote: B. This would be mature TL10 with some safe-tech designs for Earth and the inner Solar System. Surplus TL10 and TL9 is used in the colonies.

4) Given that this is a relatively small multi-system setting how is interstellar travel accomplished?

a) Fast (super science) STL (Sub-light warp drive, Pseudo velocity etc)
b) Slow FTL
c) Fast but limited FTL (Remote or intermittently operable jump gates for example)
d) Two of the above

My vote: B. Slow FTL means that the cavalry or government is not quickly coming to the rescue of a settlement. Law and society will have to solve day to day problems themselves.


5) How dependent is humanity on 'earthlike' planets?

a) Major settlements are only present on 'earthlike' planets.
b) Major settlements exist on some non-earthlike worlds. (For example, Mars, Europa etc.)
c) Major settlements can exist anywhere you can find water and power, if there is enough of a reason.

My vote: C) This can create a wealth of opportunities for world and society building from trade missions, to horror or western or anything in between.
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:06 AM   #37
Frost
 
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Default Re: Shared space setting

The first of two batches of questions for today.

6) are there unoccupied systems in the area inhabited by humanity?
My vote: yes, at least conditionally as long as you can get to them discretely then they have the potential to be interesting.

7) are there and known sapient alien species?

a) no
b) yes, but they appear to be extinct
c) yes, but we haven't made direct contact yet
d) yes, and we are in contact with them

My vote: no, the setting is an interesting size but as it is I feel that it is too small to support aliens.

Votes close at 12:00 pm tomorrow (2/23).

Last edited by Frost; 02-22-2017 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:07 AM   #38
Frost
 
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Default Re: Shared space setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshiggins View Post
...if I understand the terms correctly. It takes a significant amount of time to travel light-years, but it doesn't take years. Call it a week or two per light year, which means trips across multiple light years might take months, but close-by systems can be reached in a reasonable amount of time.
Don't be surprised if some of you ideas turn up as options in future votes, but I think you may have the wrong end of the stick about question 4.

Based on this I think I need to apologise and clarify the question the intention was more along the lines of:

a) super science fast STL, voyages are measured in years/ light year most trips are a one way proposition with round trips being the province of wealthy eccentrics or isolated sub cultures (probably mostly starship crews)

b) slow FTL, voyages measured in light years/ year with trips between inhabited worlds typically on the order of months

c) fast FTL, total flight times typically on the order of days or weeks, depending upon the final option chosen but either only connecting specific systems and or only available at certain times

d) two of the above (I know everybody got that one I just stuck this in for the sake of completeness)

Given the confusion I am not going to tally this vote today, I am going to give everybody another day to review their votes, curse my name or do anything else they think they need to.

Last edited by Frost; 02-22-2017 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 02-22-2017, 05:09 AM   #39
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Shared space setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
The first of two batches of questions for today.

6) are there unoccupied systems in the area inhabited by humanity?
My vote: yes, at least conditionally as long as you can get to them discretely then they have the potential to be interesting.
My vote is 6:no.
As soon a system gets mapped, it's likely to be colonized rapidly (to the extent to which it is attractive, which is of course way above zero).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
7) are there and known sapient alien species?

a) no
b) yes, but they appear to be extinct
c) yes, but we haven't made direct contact yet
d) yes, and we are in contact with them

My vote: no, the setting is an interesting size but as it is but I feel that it is too small to support aliens.

Votes close at 12:00 pm tomorrow (2/23).
7D. Yes, there are and by now we trade and otherwise coexist.

----

Will results be summarized in the first thread?
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Old 02-22-2017, 07:06 AM   #40
Frost
 
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Default Re: Shared space setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
My vote is 6:no.
As soon a system gets mapped, it's likely to be colonized rapidly (to the extent to which it is attractive, which is of course way above zero).


7D. Yes, there are and by now we trade and otherwise coexist.

----

Will results be summarized in the first thread?
Results are now being summarised in the second post of the thread. I am just listing the results in the order the questions where set for now with a link through to the tally for each question. I may reorganise these by topic when we have more stuff.
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