Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-31-2012, 08:11 AM   #11
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Or same called shots with different weapons. What it does is prevent builds that do nothing but Thrust with Rapier into Eye.
That would bypass the disincentive you proposed, but it seems rather disincentivised by the basic game mechanics.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 09:16 AM   #12
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
That would bypass the disincentive you proposed, but it seems rather disincentivised by the basic game mechanics.
No, the specialized fighter with one preferred modus operandi seems quite common, based on discussions of hack and slash builds.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 03:28 PM   #13
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Combat Openings

Optionally, on each turn before you attack your opponent, roll on the Hit Location Table (p. B552). The resulting body part is currently a "target of opportunity" for you. It's presented boldy and easier for you to hit: halve the penalty to hit that location, rounding in your favor, if you deliberately target it right now. The torso can't be a target of opportunity – if you roll 9-10, roll 1d on the following table instead.
1 – Your foe's weapon isn't ideally placed to defend against you. If you attack his weapon right now (to grab it, disarm, etc.), you get +1 to hit and he has -1 to defend. If you try an unarmed grab, his defense can't injure your hand even if he parries with a weapon. If he's unarmed, treat this as a presented hand.

2 – Your foe isn't watching your off hand. If you attack with that hand right now, you get +1 to hit and he has -1 to defend. This includes shield bashes! If you try an unarmed punch, his defense can't injure your hand even if he parries with a weapon. If you're using a two-handed weapon, these benefits apply to a blow with the pommel. If you're grappling him with both hands, treat as 3.

3 – Your foe isn't watching your feet. If you kick him right now, you get +1 to hit and he has -1 to defend. His defense can't injure your foot, even if he parries with a weapon.

4 – Your foe isn't controlling distance or position well. If you grapple him right now, you have +1 to hit and he has -1 to defend. If you try an unarmed grapple, his defense can't injure you even if he parries with a weapon. If you're already grappling him, treat as 5. If he's grappling you, you have +2 to break free instead. If both conditions apply, you may choose one option.

5 – Your foe is momentarily off-balance. If you make a knockback-only attack (like a shove) right now, you get +2 damage for knockback purposes only. If you try to knock him down with a move that uses a Quick Contest (like a takedown or a Sweep), he has -2 in the Contest instead. If either is an unarmed move, like a barehanded shove or a sweeping kick, his defense can't injure you even if he parries with a weapon. If he's on the ground, treat as 3.

6 – No special effect. Somehow, your foe is watching everything and presenting nothing!
These effects only apply to your attacks on that one foe. Nobody else on the battlefield is affected by these roll(s). To take advantage of this turn's opening, you must act now; you cannot try another attack first, much less wait until a later turn.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 03:36 PM   #14
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
No, the specialized fighter with one preferred modus operandi seems quite common, based on discussions of hack and slash builds.
I was referring to your proposal of making the same called shot with different weapons. It would avoid your repetition penalty, but is mechanically not very favorable unless both weapons use the same skill.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 04:46 PM   #15
vierasmarius
 
vierasmarius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Combat Openings

Optionally, on each turn before you attack your opponent, roll on the Hit Location Table (p. B552). The resulting body part is currently a "target of opportunity" for you. It's presented boldy and easier for you to hit: halve the penalty to hit that location, rounding in your favor, if you deliberately target it right now. The torso can't be a target of opportunity – if you roll 9-10, roll 1d on the following table instead.

<SNIP>
Very nice! I may have to borrow that rule. Couple questions on it: Would this replace the option to target a random hit location (since that's usually described as attacking a "target of opportunity")? Also, if a combatant has multiple attacks from Rapid Strike or Extra Attacks, does this apply to just one, or any number of them? How about Dual Weapon Attack? Altered Time Rate?
vierasmarius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 05:06 PM   #16
mhd
 
mhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Thanks for all the posts. Some very interesting ideas and approaches in there. Generally I'm pretty happy about my players, they tend to be a bit more on the fun combat/experimental side than just stabbing at the neck repeatedly. So in my campaign, it's actually more about rewarding those attacks than just encouraging them.

Kromm's combat openings rule looks quite interesting (and I see that vierasmarius already asked all I wanted to know about it and more), although introducing yet another roll and table into the fray has to be carefully evaluated. I could see some other things tying into that, though. Maybe you could keep an evaluate bonus "ready" until you try to exploit an opening (skill/10 bonus max, void if you do an AOA yourself).

Speaking of All-Out Attacks, maybe changing the rules for the "double" variant could work out. If you're doing it with one weapon/mode of attack, you'll only get your second attack if the first one hit, representing twisting the blade, following through etc (i.e. not a second swing/thrust). That limitation doesn't apply for two different attacks, attacks with fencing weapons and (maybe) attacks within C range.
mhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 05:56 PM   #17
Peter V. Dell'Orto
Fightin' Round the World
 
Peter V. Dell'Orto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
One solution is to treat all non-different attacks the same way repeated Combinations are handled: provide +1 to Active Defences if the attacker refuses to employ anything other than Attack A. You can make the defence bonus stack to some arbitrary number if you're feeling nasty.
I like Kromm's suggested table, but this solution is the one I'd actually use in play. Easy to remember, and easy enough to apply on the fly.

You can apply it broadly, too, so if Hank the Hacker always does Axe Swing Neck, Axe Swing Body, Axe Swing Arm, then Shield Bash Body and repeats those four to avoid the +1, you can start that + on the second maneuver of the second time around as the opponent notices the pattern.
__________________
Peter V. Dell'Orto
aka Toadkiller_Dog or TKD
My Author Page
My S&C Blog
My Dungeon Fantasy Game Blog
"You fall onto five death checks." - Andy Dokachev
Peter V. Dell'Orto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 06:28 PM   #18
knarf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Movement and environment can help mix things up, but require a bit more setup on the GM's side. Foes with Karate, Judo, and Boxing (and probably one or two other combat skills that I'm not naming) have darn good Parry scores when they Retreat. They can use that to "lead" the opposition by continually moving away and into other things.

Let's say that an enemy does a Retreating Acrobatic Dodge and winds up on the other side of a table. The PC now has to negotiate the obstacle in order to attack again. Whether it's by chopping the table with their Battleaxe or doing an All Out Attack (Long), they're now forced to change up their standard procedure.

Catwalks are great for this, since the goal of the combat changes from "make him run out of hit points" to "knock him off the catwalk and watch him fall to his death." In this scenario, attacks are primarily useful for inflicting stun penalties, so that the enemy has less resistance to you throwing him off the catwalk.
knarf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 08:28 PM   #19
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Combat Openings

. . . The torso can't be a target of opportunity – if you roll 9-10, roll 1d on the following table instead.
Not that I don't like the 1-6 table, but why can't the torso be a target of opportunity? I've definitely seen someone, for example, raise or lower their guard as part of their shifty-stance thing and expose their belly. Or pick up an elbow to expose the hips or ribs. I might allow a few of the options to favor, for example, low-line or high-line attacks, or gut punches, etc.

I do like the table, and one nice thing about it is that something similar, or even a choice of somethings similar, to build your own personal table. Every fighter might have a set of things he does, by habit, that leave openings. Boxers, for example, might populate the table with a bunch of stuff that says "I'm basically blind to grapples and kicks." Sport martial artists where you get many points for kicking, have to knock someone's block off with a punch to the body to get points, and forbid grapples would have another set.

This concept is really neat, and with the right computerized help, would slow play down not even a little bit.
__________________
Gaming Ballistic, LLC
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2012, 08:45 PM   #20
mhd
 
mhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
Default Re: Encouraging different attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Not that I don't like the 1-6 table, but why can't the torso be a target of opportunity?
Probably so that you can use the normal hit location table and still have a spot for those 1-6 entries. But as you'd have to have those entries available for reference anyway, you might as well make a special table for the whole shebang.

You probably would need a possiblity to avoid offering opportunities, maybe as an option for Defensive Attack, giving you a +2 bonus for active defenses against such exploits.
mhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kromm answer, maneuvers

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.