Bow ST for range and damage clarification

[AllenOwen]

GURPS 4th Ed Low Tech, pg 75 in the ST entry:" The minimum ST needed to use the weapon properly; wielders with lower ST to skill point of ST deficit. This isn't the ST used to determine range and damage. Every bow and crossbow has a [I]rated[I][I] ST, the ST required to draw and use it at full efficacy ,which determines the range and damage."

This passage, which I paraphrased, is confusing to me. It seems to say the ST needed to use the bow is and is not used to determine the range and damage of the bow.
Which is it? How do I determine the range and damage of, say, a longbow? A longbow has a minimum ST of 11 to use without penalty, but it seems this is not used to determine range and damage, but it is. Or not?

[AlexanderHowl]

You can use a stronger bow than your ST, but you take a penalty, though damage and range is always based on bow ST.

[Plane]

I'd like 2 options, since it is possible to just partly draw a bow...

Let's say you have a ST 10 bow and you have ST 9.

You could effectively fire it at ST 10 at -1 to skill... or just fire it at ST 9 or less and avoid a penalty but do less damage and have less range.

Basically the idea of how you can choose to punch or swing a weapon at a ST lower than usual if you want, seems like you should be able to draw a bow partially for a similar effect.

I don't know if it ought to actually avoid the penalty if you reduce the damage though... maybe the penalty should always apply based on your max ST rather than the % you apply?

Also this might not apply to crossbows since I think you need to draw them fully to be able to nock them? Unless maybe different crossbows have variable knocking lengths?

Originally Posted by AllenOwen

GURPS 4th Ed Low Tech, pg 75 in the ST entry:" The minimum ST needed to use the weapon properly; wielders with lower ST to skill point of ST deficit. This isn't the ST used to determine range and damage. Every bow and crossbow has a [I]rated[I][I] ST, the ST required to draw and use it at full efficacy ,which determines the range and damage."

This refers back to "Bows, Crossbows, and Rated ST" on LT74 so it seems like "ST" and "Rated St" are different things.

LT76's column only has 1 ST entry though...

"ST to draw back the bowstring fully" seems like it would basically be an upper cap on both damage and range: more ST shouldn't help since you can't draw the string any further.

Which is why I like the idea of either taking a skill penalty to use a bow at it's full rated ST (max dmg and range) or avoid a penalty by applying a lower-than-max ST (less damage, less range) by only PARTIALLY drawing the string

[zoncxs]

When you buy a bow, you must declare what its rated ST is, no less than its minimum ST. That is used to determine distance and damage. If your characters ST is less than the rated ST of the bow you bought, you take a penalty to skill equal to the difference, as well as losing that much more FP at the end of combat.



Low Tech p. 75
"ST:...This isn’t the ST used to find a bow or crossbow’s damage and range. Every bow or crossbow also has a rated ST, the ST required to draw and use it at full efficacy, which determines damage and range; see Bows, Crossbows, and Rated ST (p. 74)*.

Weaker users can shoot a stronger bow, but will suffer the standard skill penalty and FP loss for using an over-strength weapon...."


Character A has ST 13. Bow skill at 14
Character Todd has ST 9. Bow skill at 14
Longbow has minimum ST of 11

Longbow with ST rating of 11, dmg is 1d+1
Longbow with ST rating of 13, dmg is 1d+2
Longbow with ST rating of 15, dmg is 1d+3
Longbow with ST rating of 20, dmg is 2d+1
Longbow with ST rating of 24, dmg is 2d+3

Character A
Longbow 11 = 1d+1, Skill 14, FP cost after battle +0
Longbow 13 = 1d+2, Skill 14, FP cost after battle +0
Longbow 15 = 1d+3, Skill 12, FP cost after battle +2
Longbow 24 = 2d+3, skill 3, FP cost after battle +11

Character Todd
Longbow 11 = 1d+1, Skill 12, FP cost after battle +2
Longbow 13 = 1d+2, Skill 10, FP cost after battle +4
Longbow 15 = 1d+3, Skill 8, FP cost after battle +6
Longbow 20 = 2d+1, skill 3, FP cost after battle +11

[Thamior]

Strength of the bow is its property of how tight its string is. If you don't have enough ST you can't draw the string properly, you're too weak. But if you have more than enough strength (your ST > bow ST) its just surplus. Because no matter how much stronger you are you can't use this excessive ST to draw it more than it's designed for. In other words bows have a limit on potential energy you can put into it.

[zoncxs]

This is why I love The Deadly Spring (Pyramid 3/33).

It rids the notation of rated ST determining damage and distance.

[Thamior]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

When you buy a bow, you must declare what its rated ST is, no less than its minimum ST. That is used to determine distance and damage. If your characters ST is less than the rated ST of the bow you bought, you take a penalty to skill equal to the difference, as well as losing that much more FP at the end of combat.



Low Tech p. 75
"ST:...This isn’t the ST used to find a bow or crossbow’s damage and range. Every bow or crossbow also has a rated ST, the ST required to draw and use it at full efficacy, which determines damage and range; see Bows, Crossbows, and Rated ST (p. 74)*.

Weaker users can shoot a stronger bow, but will suffer the standard skill penalty and FP loss for using an over-strength weapon...."


Character A has ST 13. Bow skill at 14
Character Todd has ST 9. Bow skill at 14
Longbow has minimum ST of 11

Longbow with ST rating of 11, dmg is 1d-1
Longbow with ST rating of 13, dmg is 1d+0
Longbow with ST rating of 15, dmg is 1d+1
Longbow with ST rating of 20, dmg is 2d-1
Longbow with ST rating of 24, dmg is 2d+1

Character A
Longbow 11 = 1d-1, Skill 14, FP cost after battle +0
Longbow 13 = 1d+0, Skill 14, FP cost after battle +0
Longbow 15 = 1d+1, Skill 12, FP cost after battle +2
Longbow 24 = 2d+1, skill 3, FP cost after battle +11

Character Todd
Longbow 11 = 1d-1, Skill 12, FP cost after battle +2
Longbow 13 = 1d+0, Skill 10, FP cost after battle +4
Longbow 15 = 1d+1, Skill 8, FP cost after battle +6
Longbow 20 = 2d-1, skill 3, FP cost after battle +11

Damage will be at character's ST, not bow's, in these cases.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by AllenOwen

G
Which is it? How do I determine the range and damage of, say, a longbow? A longbow has a minimum ST of 11 to use without penalty, but it seems this is not used to determine range and damage, but it is. Or not?

The MinSt in the weapons table is the miimum ST to use that _class_ of weapon. If you don't have the ST11 for the Longbow then even a ninimal Longbow is too much for you to handle.

Each bow and crossbow also has an individual ST (which may not be less than the MinSt for that class of weapon) and can only be fully used by a Character who has at least the individual ST of that bow.

So say that your character has a ST of 10. Even the most lightly built Longbow is too much for him. If he goes to a bwyer and sasy to make him a bow to match his ST he's going to get nothing larger than a Regular Bow (or amybe a Composite Bow but those are expensive).

If he had a ST of 13 he could not only use a minimal Longbow that he happened to find but he could also purchase a Longbow built for ST 13 and use that number for all Damage and Range calculations.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by Thamior

Damage will be at character's ST, not bow's, in these cases.

Damage is determined by the bows rated ST, not the characters ST.

[AllenOwen]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The MinSt in the weapons table is the miimum ST to use that _class_ of weapon. If you don't have the ST11 for the Longbow then even a ninimal Longbow is too much for you to handle.

Each bow and crossbow also has an individual ST (which may not be less than the MinSt for that class of weapon) and can only be fully used by a Character who has at least the individual ST of that bow.

So say that your character has a ST of 10. Even the most lightly built Longbow is too much for him. If he goes to a bwyer and sasy to make him a bow to match his ST he's going to get nothing larger than a Regular Bow (or amybe a Composite Bow but those are expensive).

If he had a ST of 13 he could not only use a minimal Longbow that he happened to find but he could also purchase a Longbow built for ST 13 and use that number for all Damage and Range calculations.

How does one determine the cost of a longbow with a rated ST greater than 11?