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Old 02-23-2011, 10:13 AM   #71
jacobmuller
 
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

I know! And it's weirder than you think - there are 3 interpretations LOL.
Yes, the voice of Kromm or the Reverend Purple Kitty would be conclusive. What would be hilarious is if they both do it differently...

(I loved all the suggestions for improving Evaluate; and then Kromm told us how it was intended to work. Precious)
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:20 AM   #72
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
You treat all suspects as if they're alive and a threat until it's proven otherwise, especially ones that have just been shooting at you.
Actually, I rather do believe that the burden of proof cannot be placed on anyone other than the officer here.

And he shouldn't have the luxury to decide whether or not the suspect is in immediate danger or not based on whether or not he dislikes the fact that he shot at him. He should evaluate the condition of all people at the scene and then take whatever action is calculated to minimise risk to them as a whole.

In cases where the optimum approach to improving the survival odds of involved citizens, whether or not they are suspected of a crime, conflicts with the right of the officer to self-preservation, the officer has a duty to prioritise the safety of others over his own. That is what he is paid for, after all. If he would have liked to be able to minimise risk to himself, he should probably have pursued another career.

This duty does not entail risking his life needlessly or in a way that would interfere with the pursuance of his duties. Nor does it require him to be actively suicidal.

But in cases where there is a clear conflict between a slight increase in the safety of the officer and a slight increase in the survival odds of a citizen, I have to say that society should be able to demand that the officer choose the latter.

Of course, it might also have to increase salary, benefits and support substantially if the compensation for this increased risk level is to attract rational actors. But if the general public that we are so kindly blessed with as our ultimate lawmakers could get it into their thick-skulls that government exists to protect the people from each other, not themselves, the tasks of law enforcement personnel would rapidly shrink to a managable level and any savings could be passed to employee benefits.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:37 AM   #73
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

I fail to see how any of that has anything to do with not handcuffing a suspect after he's been shot. Handcuffing someone doesn't generally endanger their life at all, so why are you saying that suspects shouldn't be handcuffed if they've also been shot?
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:44 AM   #74
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
I fail to see how any of that has anything to do with not handcuffing a suspect after he's been shot.
I fail to see how this has anything do to with Mozambique Drills in GURPS.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:57 AM   #75
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
I fail to see how any of that has anything to do with not handcuffing a suspect after he's been shot. Handcuffing someone doesn't generally endanger their life at all, so why are you saying that suspects shouldn't be handcuffed if they've also been shot?
A shot person probably requires immediate first aid, and may have his/her/its situation worsen from the handcuffing.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:18 AM   #76
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Back on-topic: I think it's very weird that we can read the same rules and come away with two different conclusions. I don't think there is any ambiguity at all. Perhaps it's time to ask Kromm or RPK?
I don't think there's ambiguity, but I think that the rules as written are incoherent, since they're out of order: you roll at the start of your turn, unless the action you take that turn is 'do nothing', but the start of your turn is before you decide what action you're going to take.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:55 AM   #77
Kromm
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Per p. B380, "If you have zero or fewer HP left . . . You must roll vs. HT each turn to avoid falling unconscious." The current turn isn't excepted. You're supposed to roll on being taken to 0 HP or below. Injury effects are meant to be immediate – you don't wait a beat and then notice that your arm is off or your brains are scrambled.

The offending passage is on p. B419:
"In addition to the above effects, make a HT roll at the start of your next turn, at -1 per full multiple of HP below zero."
which would be clearer as:
"In addition to the above effects, make an immediate HT roll, at -1 per full multiple of HP below zero."
The later text:
Success means you can act normally, but must roll again every turn to continue functioning.
would then be better as:
Success means you can act normally, but must roll again at the start of every turn to continue functioning.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:02 PM   #78
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

Okay, now I am extra confused. When does Do Nothing help? On the turn you take it, or the following turn?
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:18 PM   #79
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

On later turns, if the immediate HT roll doesn't fail. The effect is "immediate HT roll you can't avoid, no matter what, followed by more HT rolls you can avoid, by taking Do Nothing."
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:21 PM   #80
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Default Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
On later turns, if the immediate HT roll doesn't fail. The effect is "immediate HT roll you can't avoid, no matter what, followed by more HT rolls you can avoid, by taking Do Nothing."
Now I'm really really lost. When would you make the roll that Do Nothing prevents? Can you post an example?
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