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Old 10-31-2018, 11:10 AM   #1
Empada
 
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Default power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

Hi,
some time ago, I make This Thread for a Supers game.

now the player want to have a power where he can swap some HP and FP lost between his duplicate (also, he can't merge with the duplicate) and I have no idea where to start from.
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:26 PM   #2
Refplace
 
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Default Re: power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

I answered there because I got confused :(
I would use Drains Familiar. I think its -10% + Granted by Familiar, -40% for total -50% which seems low but it might be-50% on its own. Though Granted by Familiar always seemed too high to me.
Wording doesnt make it clear to me, and I would appreciate clarification on that.

If they have LOTs of HP and FP go the Leech route.
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Last edited by Refplace; 10-31-2018 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:59 PM   #3
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I would use Drains Familiar. I think its -10% + Granted by Familiar, -40% for total -50% which seems low but it might be-50% on its own.
The "Drains Familiar" route kind of works for FP, but I don't think it works very well for HP. HP isn't usually "spent" the way FP is, for one thing. Also, Empada can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like they're asking more for an ability "drain" HP or FP from the other body when they choose, not necessarily immediately when either are spent (which is what the Drains Familiar limitation would do).

Instead, I'd suggest that the right trait here is probably Regeneration, with the +100% "Heals FP" enhancement, and a limitation to represent that whenever you heal HP or FP with it, it harms the other body in equal measure. I'd price that limitation at -50%, basically similar to the Empathic limitation on Healing, which forces you to take on the wounds you heal. That strikes me as about equivalent, given that the duplicates are essentially you in this situation. The level of Regeneration you take would then represent how fast you can "transfer" the resources. So if you wanted to be able to transfer HP and FP at 1 per minute, you'd buy Regeneration (Fast; Drains Duplicate, -50%; Fatigue Recovery, +100%;) [75].
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

Leech 1 (1 for 1 +25%; Malediction +150%; Ranged +40%; Dupes Only -50%). [67]
Leech 1 (1 for 1 +25%; Malediction +150%; Ranged +40%; Dupes Only -50%; Only Drains FP -25%; Only Heals FP -20%; Alternate other other Leech). [55 * 1/5 = 11]

Total 78 points.

It does require a Malediction roll (which doesn't have to be resisted and I would offer it to be treated as beneficial), is affected by long range, and heals 1 point per point of success each second. You can add +1 per point of success for a bit over 12 points per level. (With level 3 leech, you would transfer 3 points for each point of success, meaning success by 4 could transfer 12 points in a single second.)


Edit: Why not Healing or Regeneration? Regeneration costs more and shouldn't really be doing damage to another character (really you should link Innate Attack to Regen for that). Empathic Healing has its perks, but you can only do it once per day and gives you HP for FP. It doesn't really help with FP recovery.

Last edited by naloth; 10-31-2018 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:33 PM   #5
evileeyore
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Default Re: power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I'd price that limitation at -50%, basically similar to the Empathic limitation on Healing...
Or, you know, just take Healing with the Empathatic Limitation, Reduced FP, Can Heal FP, and a "Only on Dupes" Limitation.
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

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Or, you know, just take Healing with the Empathatic Limitation, Reduced FP, Can Heal FP, and a "Only on Dupes" Limitation.
Let's price it... It has the perk of being able to be originated from the remote dupe (so the one getting hurt can concentrate on fighting or whatever). You would probably want them to be in telepathic contact to justify knowing when to use it on the remote dupe.

Empathic removes the need for FP expense, so:

Healing (Base 30. Empathic -50%; Only on Dupes -50%; Ranged +40%; Increased Range x100 +60%*; May empathically heal FP as well +100%**). [60]

Requires an IQ check to heal. -3 per additional healing for cumulative attempts until 24 hours pass. *+60% on Inc Range gives it about a 5 mile range. Really I'd make it a bit further unless you plan to keep your FP/HP reservoir close at hand. **Fatigue in addition is priced at 100% for Regeneration, so I'm using that here as well.

Overall the price is good if you don't mind the range limit and daily restrictions.
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Leech 1 (1 for 1 +25%; Malediction +150%; Ranged +40%; Dupes Only -50%). [67]
Leech 1 (1 for 1 +25%; Malediction +150%; Ranged +40%; Dupes Only -50%; Only Drains FP -25%; Only Heals FP -20%; Alternate other other Leech). [55 * 1/5 = 11]

Total 78 points.

It does require a Malediction roll (which doesn't have to be resisted and I would offer it to be treated as beneficial), is affected by long range, and heals 1 point per point of success each second.
Actually, that's somewhat off, I fear. Leech with Malediction drains 1 HP per level of Leech for each victory in a Quick Contest. So at Leech 1, that's still only 1 HP/second.

Also, I question the Alternate Abilities build here - Steals FP has a +60% version that allows you to steal either HP or FP, and I think it's a bit of a point crock to get it through an Alternate Abilities setup instead. You should just put Steals FP, +60% on the main ability (which would then have a final cost of 82 points).

Anyway, this ability definitely heals faster than my Regeneration build, but it has a couple notable limitations: it requires a roll at all, and it's got serious range limitations, since it uses the speed/range table. To compare, Regeneration (Very Fast) will heal 1 HP a second, with no rolls required, no matter the range to the duplicate, for 150 points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth
Edit: Why not Healing or Regeneration? Regeneration costs more and shouldn't really be doing damage to another character (really you should link Innate Attack to Regen for that).
I would certainly not allow the Regeneration build to drain a random character to fuel a PC's recovery! But the situation isn't really that in this case - a Duplicate, more than practically anyone else, is you. You're draining your own resources in this case, not someone else's.

Although, I probably would allow this build with an Ally, since that's also draining your resources in a way. But if an Ally died because you drew too many FP or HP from them, I'd definitely count that as your fault, and impose the normal rules for Allies in that case!
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Actually, that's somewhat off, I fear. Leech with Malediction drains 1 HP per level of Leech for each victory in a Quick Contest. So at Leech 1, that's still only 1 HP/second.
I usually don't use the Malediction side, but that did sound like a very good deal. In any case this just caps or slows the flow a bit making Healing better.

Quote:
Also, I question the Alternate Abilities build here - Steals FP has a +60% version that allows you to steal either HP or FP, and I think it's a bit of a point crock to get it through an Alternate Abilities setup instead. You should just put Steals FP, +60% on the main ability (which would then have a final cost of 82 points).
I considered that but you're actually paying for the ability to steal either to recharge either. Obviously that's worth the extra as you can drain the dupe's FP to heal your HP then let them rest for a bit to repeat. You also need to add the ability to heal FP instead of HP. In the end you would be able to drain either FP or HP or heal either. Taking on some exclusive limits would probably bring it closer in line with AA.

Quote:
Anyway, this ability definitely heals faster than my Regeneration build, but it has a couple notable limitations: it requires a roll at all, and it's got serious range limitations, since it uses the speed/range table. To compare, Regeneration (Very Fast) will heal 1 HP a second, with no rolls required, no matter the range to the duplicate, for 150 points.
I'd say the cost favors either Healing or Leech, even not considering you're taking an limitation to alter traits on another character sheet. Two PCs each bought this rather than using dupes, would you accept it as a valid ability?

Quote:
I would certainly not allow the Regeneration build to drain a random character to fuel a PC's recovery! But the situation isn't really that in this case - a Duplicate, more than practically anyone else, is you. You're draining your own resources in this case, not someone else's.
For all practical purposes Dupes are another PC, just also under your control. For some games, I have allowed players (when there were only 3-4 players) to play 2 PCs at once, which feels similar.

Quote:
Although, I probably would allow this build with an Ally, since that's also draining your resources in a way. But if an Ally died because you drew too many FP or HP from them, I'd definitely count that as your fault, and impose the normal rules for Allies in that case!
Refplace's suggestion HP/FP "granted by familiar" seems cleaner for Allies.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:21 PM   #9
Empada
 
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Default Re: power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

Thanks for the answers, I'm still deciding which route I will take.

but about the modifier, -50% only dupes. in Duplication, B50, it says "if your telesend works only with your dupes, you may take the Racial limitation" which is only -20%.

so, -20% or -50%?
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: power design - swap HP and FP between duplicates

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Originally Posted by Empada View Post
Thanks for the answers, I'm still deciding which route I will take.

but about the modifier, -50% only dupes. in Duplication, B50, it says "if your telesend works only with your dupes, you may take the Racial limitation" which is only -20%.

so, -20% or -50%?
I would use -20%, its going to come up a lot so -50% seems high to me.
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My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
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