02-25-2016, 06:17 PM | #1 | |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Definition of 'disadvantage'
Long story short: me and GM got struck into argument about interpreting definition of 'Disadvantage'. He rightfully says that limit on disadvantages includes
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But I was confused even more when I've been told that quirks counts towards that limit too, for the same reason: they have negative cost! Personally, I feel it realistic to increase one attribute at the expense of another: it assumes that character specialized by favoring one type of activity over the other, for example reading instead of working off or vice versa. In my previous games, GMs not accounted lowered stats as disadvantages, but counted just net worth of ajusted stats: ST11 DX12 IQ9 HT10 is 30pts, not 50/-20. I understand it may lead to minmaxing, but aren't that represents realistic specialization? Big guys tend to be dumber, smart guys often weaker, you know. And quirks... I've threated them as a legal way to squeeze that extra point or two by adding some flavor to PC's personality. Now I see them as -1 points in a world of -5, -10, -15, -20 and even -25 disadvantages, but i have -25 limit, so there's just no room for those poor little -1s. I feel pity, but they have to wait for another game. Goodbye, little quirks, I'll miss you. So I've got curious: what do you count as a disadvantage in terms of limiting its cost? Is there any clarifications I can use to change my GM's mind on that topic? Last edited by JackOfClubs; 02-25-2016 at 06:22 PM. |
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02-25-2016, 06:23 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: Definition of 'disadvantage'
Anything with a negative cost is a disadvantage. This includes but is not limited to:
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02-25-2016, 06:26 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Re: Definition of 'disadvantage'
Negative attributes are a perfectly reasonable disadvantage. I've played a wizard with a lowered Per (IQ 12, Per 9), and it definitely came up in play as much as his cowardice or curiosity. People with low base stats have low defaults, which means failing at what should be simple tasks.
For quirks, they should probably be the first -5 points you pick up if you are planning to take disadvantages at all. In effect they are such minor traits that it's up to the player to RP them, and they can be ignored in times of great danger. Most of them are things you do anyway, and they will almost never cost your character their life. Also note that as point totals increase, taking disadvantages become less and less advantageous because they represent a smaller total of your point pool, but restrict your actions just as often. A "min-max"d character would buy off disadvantages as soon as possible so that they don't end up getting themselves or others killed/hurt by them. This is where quirks are also useful, buy your serious disadvantages down to quirk level to keep the flavor, but loose the serious repercussions.
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02-25-2016, 06:39 PM | #4 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Definition of 'disadvantage'
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Also I would totally take those Quirks. 20 points in 'real' disads and 5 points in Quirks. |
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02-25-2016, 08:05 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Definition of 'disadvantage'
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(b) My own feeling is that even though quirks count as disadvantages, it's reasonable not to count them toward the limit. The purpose of quirks is to achieve extra characterization and make characters more entertaining or memorable. If you have a disadvantage limit of N, and your negatively valued traits add up to N-3, you can only take three quirks, not five; if they come to N, you don't get any quirks. That kind of defeats the purpose. I can see a case for a house rule that lets everyone take up to five quirks, even if they're full up on "disadvantages" broadly defined.
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02-25-2016, 09:02 PM | #6 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: Definition of 'disadvantage'
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I also like to use a disadvantage limit of 25+one (i.e., 25 points, plus one disadvantage of any value).
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02-25-2016, 09:15 PM | #7 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Definition of 'disadvantage'
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Thus a '250 point' campaign is actually 255 points in my games. If they want more than 5 Quirks, those come out of the Disad limit and must be approved (after so many Quirks just tend to end up as 'free points'). |
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02-25-2016, 09:21 PM | #8 |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Definition of 'disadvantage'
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02-25-2016, 09:48 PM | #9 |
Untagged
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Definition of 'disadvantage'
It is stupid and nonsensical, but RAW lists super smart but average perception as a disadvantage. But that's easily house ruled away.
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02-25-2016, 10:45 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia (also known as zone Brisbane)
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Re: Definition of 'disadvantage'
I used to have quirks as a separate total back in 3e days. Personally I think that works better.
I prefer simplicity, so my policy with 4e is, if it specifically listed as a disadvantage in the disadvantage section of the Rulebook then it is a disadvantage otherwise it doesn't count. I don't care if players min/max their attributes, after years of d20 I'm used to it. |
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disadvantages, quirk limit |
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