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Old 06-25-2009, 12:01 PM   #1
vicky_molokh
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Default Postulates and theorems for an Oracle to use . . .

Greetings, all!

I'm trying to invent consistent 'technobable' for prophets, oracles and the like in my current fantasy campaign. I've decided to try share my ideas for all to see and comment. For instance, the line between postulates and theorems is fuzzy at the moment, and I'm not sure which parts of these 'postulates' to keep at an axiomatic level, and which ones to shift into theorems.

Postulates of Events:
  1. For a causal universe, any event has at least one cause (another event), and cannot exist without one.
  2. For an acausal universe, events do not have causes, and thus cannot have consequences (because a consequence needs a cause, which events aren't in this universe).
  3. A causal universe cannot become acausal:
    If there is a way to make seemingly 'acausal' events occur, then the true cause of their existence is whatever event made them possible; thus, they aren't really acausal, merely perceived as such. Repeat, a causal universe cannot become acausal.
  4. Causal universes can be spontaneously 'created' from acausal ones:
    An acausal universe doesn't need causes for events. Change of state from acausal to causal is an event, which thus doesn't need a cause.
  5. The very first events in a causal universe are caused by the shift of the universe's state from acausal to causal. Note that the shift itself can not be causal, but it has consequences which lie in the causal ray of time.
  6. In a continuous (analog) causal universe, an event has an infinity of causes and consequences, exclusing the very first events immedeately after the shift.
  7. In a discrete ('digital') causal universe, an event has a finite number of causes and consequences.

Postulates of Predictions:
  1. For a linguistically correct prediction (about the future) of finite complexity, there is at least one possible interpretation.
    Expanded version: For a linguistically correct prediction of finite complexity, there is at least one possible interpretation in context, and at least one misinterpretation out of context.
  2. An ideal interpretation, for any fixed segment of time, is either true or false.
  3. A real interpretation, at any point in time, can either be deemed true, or not deemed true (which includes unknown, and deemed false); if the interpretation is too vague, it can also be deemed partially true.
  4. A linguistically correct prediction of infinite complexity has at most one interpretation.

Definitions of prophecies
  • A true prophecy is a prediction, combined with at least one interpretation, which is ultimately found to be true (within the segment of time given to the prophecy to fulfill itself).
  • A false prophecy is a prediction, combined with at least one interpretation, none of which is found to be true at any point in the segment of time given for the prophecy to fulfill itself).

On will:
  • In a causal universe, events (including choices) are predefined by whatever preceding events are their causes. Thus, free will is predetermined.
  • In an acausal universe, events (including choices) do not have consequences. Thus, free will is powerless.

P.S. Dear moderators, could you please fix the 'orcacle' to 'Oracle' in the thread title?

Thanks in advance!
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Last edited by vicky_molokh; 06-25-2009 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:41 AM   #2
c2h5oh
 
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Default Re: Postulates and theorems for an Oracle to use . . .

I think Event I., Event II, and Event V. contradict each other with respect to the very first event in a causal universe. Event I. says that the very first event must have a cause. Event V. says that the first event is caused by the shift. Event V. says that the shift itself is not causal. Is the shift an event? Is it an event with belongs in the acausal universe? If the shift is an event that belongs to acausal universe, then it is an event with a consequence and violates Event. II. If the shift is an event that belongs to the causal universe, then it is an event without a cause and violates Event I.

One thing that I think is missing is that the prophecy itself is an event, and thus may have consequences, which interact in some way with subsequent events. Should there be a postulate regarding the cardinality of consequences for any given event in a causal universe?

I know that this is supposed to be technobabble, but I find it grating to define continuous and discrete as infinite and finite. Discrete things may be infinite (the set of integers). However, I don't think that it is possible to be continuous and finite (the set of real numbers between 2 and 3 is infinite I think). Here my knowledge of mathematics reaches its limit, but I think that this is because integers and real numbers belong to sets with different degrees of infinity. Anyhoo, I'm rambling now. Just saying that I don't Event VI. and Event VII to be very convincing technobabble is all.

Event IV. feels like it should be a theorem. I can't quite put my finger on the chain of logic that follows from other postulates, but I feel it should follow on about rules regarding cardinality of causes and consequences.

This is seriously hurting my brain now, so I think I will stop.
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:54 AM   #3
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Postulates and theorems for an Oracle to use . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by c2h5oh View Post
I think Event I., Event II, and Event V. contradict each other with respect to the very first event in a causal universe. Event I. says that the very first event must have a cause. Event V. says that the first event is caused by the shift. Event V. says that the shift itself is not causal. Is the shift an event? Is it an event with belongs in the acausal universe? If the shift is an event that belongs to acausal universe, then it is an event with a consequence and violates Event. II. If the shift is an event that belongs to the causal universe, then it is an event without a cause and violates Event I.
I've been thinking about that. I think I should rewrite them as follows (sorry, most notes left at home, so no numbers):

Postulates of Events, part 1.
  • For a causal universe, any event has at least one cause (another event), and cannot exist without one.
  • For an acausal universe, events do not have causes, and thus cannot have consequences (because a consequence needs a cause, which events aren't in this universe).
  • The shift between causal and acausal state of the universe is an event.
Theorems:
  • Shift from causal to acausal is impossible (see proof above).
  • Shift from acausal to causal itself doesn't need a cause, so it is theoretically possible.
  • The shift itself belongs to neither state of the universe:
    The shift from acausal to causal has consequences, therefore it cannot belong to the acausal universe. It has no cause, so it cannot belong to the causal universe. It has consequences, thus it is a cause-event. It can only be concluded that it belongs to neither universe. If the two universes can be described as two opposing rays of a single line (going in different directions from a single point, but not including that point), then the shift is occupying this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c2h5oh View Post
One thing that I think is missing is that the prophecy itself is an event, and thus may have consequences, which interact in some way with subsequent events. Should there be a postulate regarding the cardinality of consequences for any given event in a causal universe?
Good point, but I don't know what to answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c2h5oh View Post
I know that this is supposed to be technobabble, but I find it grating to define continuous and discrete as infinite and finite. Discrete things may be infinite (the set of integers). However, I don't think that it is possible to be continuous and finite (the set of real numbers between 2 and 3 is infinite I think). Here my knowledge of mathematics reaches its limit, but I think that this is because integers and real numbers belong to sets with different degrees of infinity. Anyhoo, I'm rambling now. Just saying that I don't Event VI. and Event VII to be very convincing technobabble is all.

Event IV. feels like it should be a theorem. I can't quite put my finger on the chain of logic that follows from other postulates, but I feel it should follow on about rules regarding cardinality of causes and consequences.

This is seriously hurting my brain now, so I think I will stop.
I'm crunching this part of your answer. Expect reply, dunno when.

And thanks!
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